woolley Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 24 minutes ago, Blade Runner said: Please take this as it is meant, the island has really BAD AIR quality when the wind don't blow. It doesn't. Maybe for a few minutes around QB morning and evening. Check the figures. In Douglas they are comparable with Carlisle which is the town with the cleanest air in England, and we get it from the prevailing wind direction even before they do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Nitrogen Dioxide monioring Figures look well under UK/EU average objective 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Blade Runner said: PLEASE BANKER- SHOW ME SOME VERY RECENT AIR QUALITY SAMPLES FROM PEEL ROAD IN DOUGLAS ON A LOW WIND DAY. Why the obsession with Peel Road? How is the air by the M6, or the AI(M), or even the A685? Sadly, you've turned into another in a long line of people who leave the Island but for some reason can't let go. It's like they have to validate this major life decision for themselves by regularly asserting how wonderful it is in Essex/Yorkshire/Norfolk/Fylde/fill in the blank.... or wherever, and how excruciatingly awful it is here. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Blade Runner said: I am not a nutter! I have a government issued document to prove that I will have you know. DO YOU? 🙂 I wouldn't rely on the government for this, thank you. I did my own using brightly coloured fluorescent crayons. ETA: Weirdly, I think I actually believe you about yours. Edited February 13 by woolley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, woolley said: Why the obsession with Peel Road? How is the air by the M6, or the AI(M), or even the A685? Sadly, you've turned into another in a long line of people who leave the Island but for some reason can't let go. It's like they have to validate this major life decision for themselves by regularly asserting how wonderful it is in Essex/Yorkshire/Norfolk/Fylde/fill in the blank.... or wherever, and how excruciatingly awful it is here. 47 minutes ago, Blade Runner said: I am not a nutter! I have a government issued document to prove that I will have you know. DO YOU? 🙂 Anyway I stand by my statement. The air in Douglas is SH1t. You don't have smokeless zones for one and you also have a underworked incinerator on the outskirts. You also have a gas burning power station in that valley and all the cars and vans on the island going through it everyday with NO ANNUAL CHECKS ON THEIR EMISSIONS. The air on the island is fine when the wind blows hard but when it does not it is worse than central London. I am fine in the Dales as all the heavy bad PM2.5 Particles have fallen all over Liverpool/ Manchester before they get to me. Please take this as it is meant, the island has really BAD AIR quality when the wind don't blow. Everyone appears to be missing the Elephant in the room. The (cheap) coal burning steam train. If the samples were done down there when the train is in the station, I could well believe it. I have had visitors ask me what the smell/pollution is a couple of times. All other times, it's clean as a (not a train) whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, The Phantom said: Everyone appears to be missing the Elephant in the room. The (cheap) coal burning steam train. If the samples were done down there when the train is in the station, I could well believe it. I have had visitors ask me what the smell/pollution is a couple of times. All other times, it's clean as a (not a train) whistle. The smell of the steam engine is WONDERFUL! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Yep, definitely a nutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: Yep, definitely a nutter. The stench that comes out of McDonald's itself is more offensive than anything else he's liable to encounter. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Does anybody know what this 7kt limit is that Chris Thomas is talking about? Sounds like we can't actually use the Ben due to this restriction https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/further-investigation-needed-to-clarify-packet-claims-made-in-keys-says-treasury-minister/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, cissolt said: Does anybody know what this 7kt limit is that Chris Thomas is talking about? Sounds like we can't actually use the Ben due to this restriction https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/further-investigation-needed-to-clarify-packet-claims-made-in-keys-says-treasury-minister/ My understanding is that Ben runs on marine diesel fuel, one of the heaviest, most polluting, refinery fractions. Lots of sulphur, nitrogen oxides and carbon particulates. There’s a thing called IOPP ( International Oil Pollution Prevention ) which applies to ships by international convention, MARPOL under IMO. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bcae40f0b62305b8cdd7/Pt_A_Ch12_IOPP_Final_Feb_16.pdf Ben is old, and whilst our sole year round life line vessel she had temporary exemptions pending works to comply, scrubbers to take out Sulphur, NOx and carbon particulates. Expensive to retrofit. BF intended doing it to many of their older ferries, but after a couple they decided to order 5 new e-flexers on charter from Stena. Mx is compliant. Youll recall that under the sea services agreement Ben was to be kept as back up, but SPCo has recently sought to get rid of Ben and use Arrow ( which it has bought since the agreement was signed ). That gives no resilience for passengers in winter when Manannan cannot sail. The Ben is not currently capable of covering any freight or passenger back up duties as she is currently under a temporary extension to her IOPP certification, this means she has a power restriction placed on her (except for manoeuvring in port) until full certification is granted. Hence the 7kts speed. The new rules started to come into force 2 years ago after a long notice period of statuary obligations that were to be met. Steam Packet have gambled. Not complied. Problem is that with a boat as old as the Ben, with limited life, cost of compliance May have become prohibitive. Steam packet have dragged their heels on this and the implication is clear, they must think they can sell the vessel and it would be someone else’s problem. Hope that helps. What it does indicate is that when SPCo said they were readying the Ben when Mx was recently unable to sail for technical ( not weather ) reasons, they were at best being economical with the truth. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 11 minutes ago, John Wright said: My understanding is that Ben runs on marine fuel, one of the heaviest, most polluting, refinery fractions. Theres a thing called IOPP ( International Oil Pollution Prevention ) which applies to ships by international convention. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bcae40f0b62305b8cdd7/Pt_A_Ch12_IOPP_Final_Feb_16.pdf Ben is old, and whilst our sole year round life line vessel she had temporary exemptions pending works to comply, scrubbers to take out NOx and carbon particulates. Expensive to retrofit. BF intended doing it to many of their older ferries, but after a couple they decided to order 5 new e-flexers on charter from Stena. Mx is compliant. Youll recall that under the sea services agreement Ben was to be kept as back up, but SPCo has recently sought to get rid of Ben and use Arrow ( which it has bought since the agreement was signed ). That gives no resilience for passengers in winter when Manannan cannot sail. The Ben is not currently capable of covering any freight or passenger back up duties as she is currently under a temporary extension to her IOPP certification, this means she has a power restriction placed on her (except for manoeuvring in port) until full certification is granted. Hence the 7kts speed. The new rules started to come into force 2 years ago after a long notice period of statuary obligations that were to be met. Steam Packet have gambled. Not complied. Problem is that with a boat as old as the Ben, with limited life, cost of compliance May have become prohibitive. Steam packet have dragged their heels on this and the implication is clear, they must think they can sell the vessel and it would be someone else’s problem. Hope that helps. What it does indicate is that when SPCo said they were readying the Ben when Mx was recently unable to sail for technical ( not weather ) reasons, they were at best being economical with the truth. If the vessel had changed flag it would have to have been recertified anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: If the vessel had changed flag it would have to have been recertified anyway. Any vessel in British waters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Thanks John, very informative. So we are left with two boats that can't perform their function as backup for the flakey Manxman? Have treasury failed to recognise these issues before buying the steam packet? Or just unwilling to admit that we need to spend even more money to ensure we have passenger backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, cissolt said: Thanks John, very informative. So we are left with two boats that can't perform their function as backup for the flakey Manxman? Have treasury failed to recognise these issues before buying the steam packet? Or just unwilling to admit that we need to spend even more money to ensure we have passenger backup. the answer is they paid too much for the Steam Packet disregarded the professional advice they were given regarding value and went ahead ,in spite of the fact that Government controlled the user agreement and without this the packet as a business was worthless except for a couple or 20 odd yer old clapped out boats , who came up with the £130 million plus we will never know except a fat Mr Toad character in brown shoes was a major part of the decision process and the same in Liverpool with the £100 million shed , all the ingredients for a perfect balls up , 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 hours ago, John Wright said: My understanding is that Ben runs on marine diesel fuel, one of the heaviest, most polluting, refinery fractions. Lots of sulphur, nitrogen oxides and carbon particulates. There’s a thing called IOPP ( International Oil Pollution Prevention ) which applies to ships by international convention, MARPOL under IMO. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bcae40f0b62305b8cdd7/Pt_A_Ch12_IOPP_Final_Feb_16.pdf Ben is old, and whilst our sole year round life line vessel she had temporary exemptions pending works to comply, scrubbers to take out Sulphur, NOx and carbon particulates. Expensive to retrofit. BF intended doing it to many of their older ferries, but after a couple they decided to order 5 new e-flexers on charter from Stena. Mx is compliant. Youll recall that under the sea services agreement Ben was to be kept as back up, but SPCo has recently sought to get rid of Ben and use Arrow ( which it has bought since the agreement was signed ). That gives no resilience for passengers in winter when Manannan cannot sail. The Ben is not currently capable of covering any freight or passenger back up duties as she is currently under a temporary extension to her IOPP certification, this means she has a power restriction placed on her (except for manoeuvring in port) until full certification is granted. Hence the 7kts speed. The new rules started to come into force 2 years ago after a long notice period of statuary obligations that were to be met. Steam Packet have gambled. Not complied. Problem is that with a boat as old as the Ben, with limited life, cost of compliance May have become prohibitive. Steam packet have dragged their heels on this and the implication is clear, they must think they can sell the vessel and it would be someone else’s problem. Hope that helps. What it does indicate is that when SPCo said they were readying the Ben when Mx was recently unable to sail for technical ( not weather ) reasons, they were at best being economical with the truth. Ben was scheduled to do some sailings in March, but these seem to have vanished from the timetable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.