GD4ELI Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Would be my requirement rather than an occasionally fast craft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's about time that the User Agreement was given a thorough overhaul, and a requirement inserted for the Company to operate AT LEAST 2 CONVENTIONAL RO-PAX VESSELS. But do they cost more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Additional cost is more than compensated for by the savings in fuel, the additional reliability, and the all year round availability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Have any of you anti Steam Packet smart arse keyboard bashers actually got any useful and viable ideas for making sailings more reliable (I agree the communication should be better in event of issues? Don't forget to consider: The requirements in the user agreement imposed by the government. The size of the market The fact that both current issues are outside the control of them or any other company The fact that people whine at the cost of a ticket now, never mind with additional craft or newer craft. The restrictions on the type of vessel that can be used due to the ports used, their harbours and approaches. The lack of availability of suitable alternative vessels sitting around doing nothing and immediately ready to go to see should they be needed (for obvious reasons) Thanks and the brilliant idea by the harbours some years ago of filling in half of the harbour to make a flippin car park so bigger boats can't get in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 a requirement inserted for the Company to operate AT LEAST 2 CONVENTIONAL RO-PAX VESSELS. That'll never work... it's common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Have any of you anti Steam Packet smart arse keyboard bashers actually got any useful and viable ideas for making sailings more reliable (I agree the communication should be better in event of issues? Don't forget to consider: The requirements in the user agreement imposed by the government. The size of the market The fact that both current issues are outside the control of them or any other company The fact that people whine at the cost of a ticket now, never mind with additional craft or newer craft. The restrictions on the type of vessel that can be used due to the ports used, their harbours and approaches. The lack of availability of suitable alternative vessels sitting around doing nothing and immediately ready to go to see should they be needed (for obvious reasons) Thanks Renege on the 'user agreement' or at the VERY least take it off the table for any future deals. Review the market and determine if the number of sailings deliver more than is required, if so then tailor the schedules to an optimal number. Note the word - optimal. The current issues are mostly due to the vessels and the routes being not fit for purpose, other than from the Ferry perspective. The astronomical cost of fares is in no small way due to the way that the ferry company is structured and financed. Harbours and ports size and access? A red herring. Available alternative vessels? Another red herring. The unsuitability of the current vessels significantly increases the NEED for replacements to deal with what has become an emergency situation. Know what 'trmpton'? I very seldom resort to profanities but this one occasion that I simply can't find an alternative other than describe what you have posted as being a load of bullshit. The user agreement is imposed by the government for the benefit of the population. Without it the routes wouldn't be viable, and without it there is no way on earth you would ever see sailings to Ireland or anywhere near the frequency of sailings we have now at quiet times. The user agreement also (I understand) stipulates the use of a fast craft through the summer. The size of the ports is hardly a "red herring" it prevents another operAtor being able to use an existing craft. The need to have a specific craft would make the routes not vial be for P&O, Stena etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hogwash. The user agreement is a contrived contract that works against the interest of the population as a whole. Other operators could use other vessels in other ways. The whole ferry service is a clustermuck that needs to be redefined from first principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pammie Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Looking back through the news articles regarding the User Agreement, it would appear that the SPC has been trying to talk to Government for three years about renegotiating it. http://www.steam-packet.com/aboutus/news/2014/Mar/Isle_of_Man_Examiner_Feature_11_March http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/talks-stall-over-steam-packet-s-linkspan-user-deal-1-6833174 SPC seem to be have been making the right noises - already chartering Arrow as backup, then planning to invest £50m in newer, more efficient more flexible vessels, planning to use Liverpool Pier head rather than Birkenhead in the winter. Perhaps a little more thought and dynamic decision making from the Government may have been useful during that time. We could be three years ahead of ourselves by now. The only thing that would have helped this weekend would have been the availability of a third vessel, fully crewed and ready to go at a moment's notice. I doubt anyone interested in running our shipping lines would be able and willing to provide that - without increasing costs or reducing service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 People get just below what they believe they are accepting. Raise the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hogwash. Other operators could use other vessels in other ways. Such as? How much would a ticket cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I suspect that the problem is the difficulty in getting or building from scratch a ship designed for the specific Isle of Man trade..So you have to make do with what's on offer. The older Steam Packet ships most of them I suspect were tailor made for the task....But shipwrighting is I am told by those still in "the game" is not what it was. So getting something made for your purposes is not so easy these days so they tell me...(Having been out of the shipping game for a long time)...Maybe you can get it in China? At a price. Yards tend to produce a design that can be amended to some extent but are usually generic. Bit like an off the peg suit that can be taken in or out etc to fit... Then there is the flexibility factor. If you do invest in a ship designed specifically for the trade are you then limiting yourself if that ship has to be sold or chartered? The "Ben" is one of a series of similar types I am told (A little bit off the stern Sir?)When the Steampacket buys in or charters it is like it is acquiring some other owner's idea of what is good for the market. Or some shipyard's idea of what will sell like a "Jack of all Trades" As I say am I long out of it but I did broke the ships of the India Steamship Co of Calcutta between 1978-80 and they were built for the trade and damn nearly impossible to charter or sell on the open market...Too specific for their trade. No one wanted them! On the other hand helping my Dad in the early 1970s run a fleet of 120 ships for Captain N D Papalios of Aegis Shipping (Now gone)I never knew a time when at least two or three of those ships a week was in trouble ie aground, harbour collision, fishing gear tangled, engine conked out, diesels down (Usually 'cos Greek Chief Engineers were/are really Third Engineers and artificers!) etc...But that's out of 120 ships deep sea.. I have never done coastal work which is what the Steamies are really "rock hoppers" almost anyway and very small beer in the shipping world...Not even a mention other than called "a small coastal line"... I imagine that in the Steamies close confines where they go into areas such as shallow waters and estuaries where there are small fishing boats and work boats on rigs they might have a gear ingestion issue. On the other hand the "Ben" does seem to be an unlucky ship which may be due to age. Although I have seen a 25 year old Channel Ferry totally re-engined and re-metalled and refitted but that is big money in a 24/7 lucrative trade ordered by a big company or conglomerate.. I don't know why the Government did not long ago buy or have a ship built to high specs for the trade and then get a managing firm to run it. Oh! Like the Steampacket you mean?...Well, yes...But the Island is crawling with ship managers and it is not that difficult...I mean I did it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Looking back through the news articles regarding the User Agreement, it would appear that the SPC has been trying to talk to Government for three years about renegotiating it. http://www.steam-packet.com/aboutus/news/2014/Mar/Isle_of_Man_Examiner_Feature_11_March http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/talks-stall-over-steam-packet-s-linkspan-user-deal-1-6833174 SPC seem to be have been making the right noises - already chartering Arrow as backup, then planning to invest £50m in newer, more efficient more flexible vessels, planning to use Liverpool Pier head rather than Birkenhead in the winter. Perhaps a little more thought and dynamic decision making from the Government may have been useful during that time. We could be three years ahead of ourselves by now. The only thing that would have helped this weekend would have been the availability of a third vessel, fully crewed and ready to go at a moment's notice. I doubt anyone interested in running our shipping lines would be able and willing to provide that - without increasing costs or reducing service. The issue with the incumbant is, to a large extent, nothing to do with service levels but more to do with financing of the operation. The UA has been used as a cash cow for various non-resident financial institutions. From what I have seen the business certainly operates at at handsome profit using the Agreement in it's current format. The main issue is that future investment in craft has been at the expense of financing the required borrowing as the company has moved from one buyer to another. The value of the UA has worked against the common good, no reserves have been set aside for future investment so the status quo in regard to borrowing will begin all over again when it's time to introduce new assets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 time they got some magic goggles to see through this stuff stuck again going back and forth until they get a break in the viz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well Bazza, there isn't much you haven't done really! Looking at extortionate fares, they're offering adult single foot passenger fares from £18 and returns from £29. I've just actually gone into the booking system and was able to get them too. Admittedly, I was booking well in advance, but that's the nature of the transport industry whether its boat or plane. Add a car to the mix and car + 2 is £80 each way. I've just done that for the same booking period as above and its £169. Yes its dearer at peak times and school holidays, I expect that due to the tiered way in which seats are sold. But I don't find it extortionate. With advance planning and a willingness to compromise on times/ports, there's plenty of ways to travel at a reasonable price. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Special offer fares should not be used to determine the real cost of passage. To go for a quick dash across to Calais using the Channel Tunnel starts at around 50 quid for a car plus 4, whereas the prices ramp significantly when other than a short trip is involved so it would be wrong to claim that 50 quid is a representative fare. The Manx ferry IS expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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