Steam Packet Warns Of Disruption To Sailings

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

Before anyone pipes up about Birkenhead port, that too I believe is owned by Peel Ports. They seem to have us over a proverbial barrel. I don’t know how long the silt situation and tidal issues can carry on for, but the SPC may as well have the Arrow on permanent standby. Could the SPC have used the Mannanan?

They already have the Arrow on permanent standby. Have had for years. They occasionally sub charter, with a break clause in case of IoM need. 

Heysham is a mix of silt and tides. The tides are predicable and can be planned ahead to an extent. The silting is a strange phenomenon. There’s been dredging ongoing for almost 3 months.  There’s no river flowing into Heysham, so any silt/sand is brought in by the tide.

The issue for the Steam Packet is operating to a fairly inflexible timetable due to carrying passengers. The silting/low tide doesn’t affect SeaTruck or Stena to the same extent.

[monasqueen]

There seems to be some correlation between the recent build up of silt in Heysham Harbour and the deterioration of the large woodwork pier just outside that now lets water, sludge, and discharges from the power station through almost without hindrance.

[Non-Believer]

No newspapers today apparently, delivery wagon failed to make boat's early departure from Heysham (3FM News).

[monasqueen]

Not quite accurate. Whites have reported that:

Friday 31st December the only titles to make this mornings early departure is

FT

Guardian

Racing Post

[Omobono]

1 hour ago, monasqueen said:

There seems to be some correlation between the recent build up of silt in Heysham Harbour and the deterioration of the large woodwork pier just outside that now lets water, sludge, and discharges from the power station through almost without hindrance.

its a bit like Douglas beach and foreshore  take away the groins and woodwork that prevent tidal scouring and the deposit of sand and silt  will just build up , you don't  need a computer model to tell you this  , Same with the  silt traps above Douglas harbour river side of  the tongue , if you don't clean them out or maintain them ,then everything just gets washed over the top and fills up the harbour with silt and mud , during this recent wet spell  when the river has been in full flood there must have been hundreds of tons of muck and silt washed into the harbour again ,

and as someone once said , prevention  is better than cure  for most things !

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Omobono said:

its a bit like Douglas beach and foreshore  take away the groins and woodwork that prevent tidal scouring and the deposit of sand and silt  will just build up , you don't  need a computer model to tell you this  , Same with the  silt traps above Douglas harbour river side of  the tongue , if you don't clean them out or maintain them ,then everything just gets washed over the top and fills up the harbour with silt and mud , during this recent wet spell  when the river has been in full flood there must have been hundreds of tons of muck and silt washed into the harbour again ,

and as someone once said , prevention  is better than cure  for most things !

Except no. That’s not how it works, nor is it that simple.

I don’t think a wooden jetty, like a pier, not solid, just lots of legs in the seabed, with substantial gaps between the legs, is going to make much difference to silting at Heysham, whether it stands or falls. Nor will “clean” coolant water from Heysham nuclear, no sediment and volume isn’t huge.

The oil terminal pier at Heysham was designed to allow tidal flow through, with minimum disruption either way. It’s a fundamental of pier design. 

With Heysham, a totally artificial harbour, gouged out of the rock and mud of a tidal inlet at the south end of Morecambe, with no natural flow it’s more likely to have been aggravated by channel changes in the various rivers flowing into Morecambe bay. The last 40 years has seen huge ( and natural ) changes in how they snake across the sands and mudflats. Shore level at Hest Bank shore lowered by 6 metres, removing all the salt marshes and exposing the early C19 canal company landing stage that hadn’t been seen since late 1890’s. And after 20 years it’s slowly being reclaimed.

As for Douglas, the groynes were to retain sand. Removing them allows scour, but whether that ends up in the harbour isn’t a given. Clearly all the breakwaters, piers and jetties, including the outer breakwater, change flow and current, as do the marina flaps etc. The modelling is really complex.

3 hours ago, monasqueen said:

There seems to be some correlation between the recent build up of silt in Heysham Harbour and the deterioration of the large woodwork pier just outside that now lets water, sludge, and discharges from the power station through almost without hindrance.

Anyway, there has been ongoing dredging at Heysham for nearly 6 months. Including early today.

 

[Omobono]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:15 PM, John Wright said:

Except no. That’s not how it works, nor is it that simple.

I don’t think a wooden jetty, like a pier, not solid, just lots of legs in the seabed, with substantial gaps between the legs, is going to make much difference to silting at Heysham, whether it stands or falls. Nor will “clean” coolant water from Heysham nuclear, no sediment and volume isn’t huge.

The oil terminal pier at Heysham was designed to allow tidal flow through, with minimum disruption either way. It’s a fundamental of pier design. 

With Heysham, a totally artificial harbour, gouged out of the rock and mud of a tidal inlet at the south end of Morecambe, with no natural flow it’s more likely to have been aggravated by channel changes in the various rivers flowing into Morecambe bay. The last 40 years has seen huge ( and natural ) changes in how they snake across the sands and mudflats. Shore level at Hest Bank shore lowered by 6 metres, removing all the salt marshes and exposing the early C19 canal company landing stage that hadn’t been seen since late 1890’s. And after 20 years it’s slowly being reclaimed.

As for Douglas, the groynes were to retain sand. Removing them allows scour, but whether that ends up in the harbour isn’t a given. Clearly all the breakwaters, piers and jetties, including the outer breakwater, change flow and current, as do the marina flaps etc. The modelling is really complex.

Anyway, there has been ongoing dredging at Heysham for nearly 6 months. Including early today.

 

The scour produced by the lack of , or   removal of groynes on Douglas beach  just allows the wind and tide to push sand and shingle  up the beach which will be level with the promenade shortly , ,and then just wait to see how much damage it does to the refurbishment and the poorly designed surface water drains ,  all these other beach resorts around the British isles seem to keep their groynes and beaches in good condition , perhaps its because they  Don't have a policy and a budget for  maintaining things  , instead of embarking in huge capital schemes , and nice to have's ,     without proper funding for road repairs  drainage and routine maintenance , 

lets hope 2022 will bring a wind of change into the DOI , and some common sense at last ,

[Andy Onchan]

There's planning and then there's planning:

https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/AttractionsLeisure/BeachesandWaterfront/BeachManagementScheme/BeachManagementScheme.aspx

[Happier diner]

13 hours ago, Omobono said:

The scour produced by the lack of , or   removal of groynes on Douglas beach  just allows the wind and tide to push sand and shingle  up the beach which will be level with the promenade shortly , ,and then just wait to see how much damage it does to the refurbishment and the poorly designed surface water drains ,  all these other beach resorts around the British isles seem to keep their groynes and beaches in good condition , perhaps its because they  Don't have a policy and a budget for  maintaining things  , instead of embarking in huge capital schemes , and nice to have's ,     without proper funding for road repairs  drainage and routine maintenance , 

lets hope 2022 will bring a wind of change into the DOI , and some common sense at last ,

I thought the discussion was about Heysham. 

[asitis]

5 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

There's planning and then there's planning:

https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/AttractionsLeisure/BeachesandWaterfront/BeachManagementScheme/BeachManagementScheme.aspx

In terms of an expensive project it's just not sexy enough for the IOM CS !

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, asitis said:

In terms of an expensive project it's just not sexy enough for the IOM CS !

Aye.... Maintenance... Someone else's problem!

[Amadeus]

The old girl looked good sailing out this morning. I miss rough sailings on that thing. Like a four hour earthquake in a skyscraper.  

 

[Happier diner]

26 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

The old girl looked good sailing out this morning. I miss rough sailings on that thing. Like a four hour earthquake in a skyscraper.  

 

Good photos

Rather weirdly the sun seems to be getting lower as the Ben gets further away.

Are you sure it was not reversing in! 

[asitis]

You could post one of those on the Liverpool thread as a meme entitled "Public money sailing off into the sunset"

(I know its morning !)

[2112]

Guernseys Government is going into a joint venture with Condor Ferries, whereby the Government are putting up to £20million with Condor putting up the rest towards a new ferry. Condor would run the service. It’s caused ructions with Jerseys Government. Perhaps the above may have worked well for here?