Steam Packet Warns Of Disruption To Sailings

[cheesypeas]

She's not coming here initially. Some fitting out to do (in this part of the World). Kids play area and one or two other bits. Will arrive there around TT week (most up-to-date plan as of yesterday). Not sure when she will arrive in Douglas.

[The Old Git]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:40 PM, Happier diner said:

Being excited about things like a new boat is a good thing.😁

I was hoping to be on it for our TT getaway. Quite fancied a cabin with a balcony. Starboard out port home maybe?

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Back in Ulsan, after 9 days of sea trials. Lots of speeding up, slowing down, tight turns. Max speed recorded was 19.6 kts. I’d have thought they would have hoped for 22 for faster runs to beat weather.

Decision time now. Acceptance? 

4-5 weeks to get to IoM. Condor’s new ( to them ) boat set off from NZ on Monday. Anticipated passage 7 weeks.

Yes. There will be some pre defined acceptance tests in the contract. They will have had to demonstrate them. As you say, once those are demonstrated (and witnessed by a qualified project manager) it's time to pay up. There will be a % retention for snags but the job will be substantially complete ( I think the term is beneficial completion but it might have changed these days but the same principle will apply) and once she sets sail for here then she is ours. I can't wait. 

[WTF]

13 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes. There will be some pre defined acceptance tests in the contract. They will have had to demonstrate them. As you say, once those are demonstrated (and witnessed by a qualified project manager) it's time to pay up. There will be a % retention for snags but the job will be substantially complete ( I think the term is beneficial completion but it might have changed these days but the same principle will apply) and once she sets sail for here then she is ours. I can't wait. 

where the fuck are we going to find one of those ??????

[John Wright]

35 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes. There will be some pre defined acceptance tests in the contract. They will have had to demonstrate them. As you say, once those are demonstrated (and witnessed by a qualified project manager) it's time to pay up. There will be a % retention for snags but the job will be substantially complete ( I think the term is beneficial completion but it might have changed these days but the same principle will apply) and once she sets sail for here then she is ours. I can't wait. 

Ship building contracts are pretty different about acceptance and payment to building contracts. I think you may be confusing the two.

Depending on the jurisdiction clause, often English, Sale of Goods Act applies.

And I’d have assumed there’d be a performance guarantee bond by the ship builders bankers. That’s to cover rejection/non acceptance and refund instalments.

And the obligation to show non acceptance applies falls on the purchaser, not the builder.

[Blade Runner]

10 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Ship building contracts are pretty different about acceptance and payment to building contracts. I think you may be confusing the two.

Depending on the jurisdiction clause, often English, Sale of Goods Act applies.

And I’d have assumed there’d be a performance guarantee bond by the ship builders bankers. That’s to cover rejection/non acceptance and refund instalments.

And the obligation to show non acceptance applies falls on the purchaser, not the builder.

A Performance Bond is a given on something like a purchase like this.

Well you would hope the IOMSPCo asked for one?

Did they?

 

[John Wright]

13 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

A Performance Bond is a given on something like a purchase like this.

Well you would hope the IOMSPCo asked for one?

Did they?

 

I’ve no access to the actual contract. But I do know what should be in one. So all I can say is “assume”.

[Banker]

22 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

A Performance Bond is a given on something like a purchase like this.

Well you would hope the IOMSPCo asked for one?

Did they?

 

As the chairman has extensive shipping/maritime experience & other board members are highly experienced professionals I think it’s a given they will have ensure IOMSPCo is protected for all eventualities, if you doubt it like you do everything then submit a FOI!

[Gladys]

12 minutes ago, Banker said:

As the chairman has extensive shipping/maritime experience & other board members are highly experienced professionals I think it’s a given they will have ensure IOMSPCo is protected for all eventualities, if you doubt it like you do everything then submit a FOI!

Would they be covered by FOI? 

They have experience of shipping and related procurement, just because they are now owned by the government does not mean that they no longer have or will not use that experience.  

Many people knock the MSPCo, but they have been operating for longer than any other company here, I would guess (poss IOM Bank?) and their longevity hints at their expertise in shipping.   They must know their stuff on the shipping side surely?  

As for the various ownership issues, you can thank the shareholders for that most likely.

 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Ship building contracts are pretty different about acceptance and payment to building contracts. I think you may be confusing the two.

Depending on the jurisdiction clause, often English, Sale of Goods Act applies.

And I’d have assumed there’d be a performance guarantee bond by the ship builders bankers. That’s to cover rejection/non acceptance and refund instalments.

And the obligation to show non acceptance applies falls on the purchaser, not the builder.

My point was "you are not sailing that ship to the isle of man until you have paid for it". 

I stand by that. Regardless of the terms. Inter country terms are always difficult because different countries and jurisdictions have different contract conditions. They will have agreed which contract applied before signing up  They all have one thing in common though. No pay.....no ship. 

[Omobono]

the current steam packet chairman has an excellent record in ship ownership and management   and has even financed and had constructed vessels much larger then manxman  for his own company 

its the possible interference from I get concerned about ,  left to its own devises  the Steam packet  can and should be a very profitable  and well run   organisation 

[Gladys]

13 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

My point was "you are not sailing that ship to the isle of man until you have paid for it". 

I stand by that. Regardless of the terms. Inter country terms are always difficult because different countries and jurisdictions have different contract conditions. They will have agreed which contract applied before signing up  They all have one thing in common though. No pay.....no ship. 

The difference in contract terms between countries is irrelevant because the parties will agree which standard terms apply, (if any or they want a bespoke contract), the jurisdiction, and vary the standard contract terms, if used, to meet the specific requirements of the job. 

John will correct me, but the main point will be the ability to enforce the contract in the jurisdiction the ship is actually built in to make sure you get delivery to the standard specified. 

 

[John Wright]

30 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

My point was "you are not sailing that ship to the isle of man until you have paid for it". 

I stand by that. Regardless of the terms. Inter country terms are always difficult because different countries and jurisdictions have different contract conditions. They will have agreed which contract applied before signing up  They all have one thing in common though. No pay.....no ship. 

The point is, no payment unless accepted.

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

The difference in contract terms between countries is irrelevant because the parties will agree which standard terms apply, (if any or they want a bespoke contract), the jurisdiction, and vary the standard contract terms, if used, to meet the specific requirements of the job. 

John will correct me, but the main point will be the ability to enforce the contract in the jurisdiction the ship is actually built in to make sure you get delivery to the standard specified. 

 

The standard will be an English law clause and a London arbitration clause. South Korea has signed up to the Treaty covering recognition and enforcement of foreign arbitration awards.

Of course the yard will stick to any arbitration award - no one will place new order if it didn’t.

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The point is, no payment unless accepted.

The standard will be an English law clause and a London arbitration clause. South Korea has signed up to the Treaty covering recognition and enforcement of foreign arbitration awards.

Of course the yard will stick to any arbitration award - no one will place new order if it didn’t.

And that is why they are one of the biggest shipbuilding countries in the world. 

[The Old Git]

4 hours ago, WTF said:

where the fuck are we going to find one of those ??????

Shh 🤫

Barrie Stevens might reappear. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by The Old Git