Steam Packet Warns Of Disruption To Sailings

[Two-lane]

56 minutes ago, John Wright said:

How long does it take for the tide to rise by that much?

It is surely easily computed - the time between tides is about 6 hours and the tidal range is some number.

[Capt_Mainwaring]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

It is surely easily computed - the time between tides is about 6 hours and the tidal range is some number.

About 12 minutes, so it makes bugger all difference between the Ben and Manxman.

[Omobono]

On 11/23/2023 at 9:17 PM, Capt_Mainwaring said:

Wouldn't quite say PR disaster. It would have happened with the Ben too. The only thing that wouldn't have been going on is the KE VIII pier but in theory work could have needed to happen and then it would affect Ben. Heysham, can't really be helped other than putting pressure on Peel Ports.

The Ben used to be moved by up to an hour either way due to tides quite often.

Time they were issuing a statement regarding the damage caused to the Ben , and the circumstances  that caused  the incident , as it is likely to become the subject or an MCA investigation or   enquiry ,people are talking about it in Belfast 

[Capt_Mainwaring]

1 hour ago, Omobono said:

Time they were issuing a statement regarding the damage caused to the Ben , and the circumstances  that caused  the incident , as it is likely to become the subject or an MCA investigation or   enquiry ,people are talking about it in Belfast 

This release was nothing to do with the Ben. It was about the Manxman on Wed/Thurs and the delays due to loading extra freight and then lack of dockers in Heysham. 

The Ben incident, possibly just a mistake, mistakes happen. They've already said it's under investigation, that statement has been published as far as I can remember?

[John Wright]

8 hours ago, Capt_Mainwaring said:

About 12 minutes, so it makes bugger all difference between the Ben and Manxman.

Not really. If the Ben couldn’t dock for a 15 minute window at lowest tide conditions it’s 12 minutes added either side. It’s actually a big difference. Especially when it’s affecting both harbours

[Capt_Mainwaring]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Not really. If the Ben couldn’t dock for a 15 minute window at lowest tide conditions it’s 12 minutes added either side. It’s actually a big difference. Especially when it’s affecting both harbours

It's probably moot anyway, the 20cm difference in draught is in all likelihood not going to change the decision whether to dock or not. It's not that significant. Plus headwind, stemming the tide, bad weather can add additional time to the crossing (or in the opposite case, actually speed it up).

I think the conclusion is, had Ben been doing these sailings, the outcome would have been the same. The decision to load extra freight was the one that caused the long delay on Wednesday evening/Thursday morning. 

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Not really. If the Ben couldn’t dock for a 15 minute window at lowest tide conditions it’s 12 minutes added either side. It’s actually a big difference. Especially when it’s affecting both harbours

 

10 hours ago, Capt_Mainwaring said:

About 12 minutes, so it makes bugger all difference between the Ben and Manxman.

You generally have about 30-60 mins at high and low tide called 'slack water' where there is not much tidal movement at all. Also depends on the actual height of the tide between a Spring and a Neap which can be almost 2m difference. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by The Phantom

[Capt_Mainwaring]

14 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

You generally have about 30-60 mins at high and low tide called 'slack water' where there is not much tidal movement at all. Also depends on the actual height of the tide between a Spring and a Neap which can be almost 2m difference. 

Yes. My 12 minutes for a 20cm change in height of tide was based on a tidal variation of 6m but it yes it could be more or less than that.

[Frances]

13 hours ago, Banker said:

Can’t say I’ve noticed the vibration of engines, where on ship do you notice it ?

very noticeable in exec lounge on level 8 - started about 30 min into journey - wondered if it was the first time they ran the engines at higher speed ?

There is another point re these now very common changes to the timetable in that there is no public transport from Peel (or Ramsey) that can meet the last checkin time for a 7:45 sailing ( I risked the 6.40am bus  on Friday and was last thru the departure gate - doing it regularly means I only have a small rucksack so no luggage; likewise there is only one train to + from Heysham to Lancaster - that gets into Heysham at 13:10 and departs 13:20 - its now a £21 or £22 taxi fare to/from Lancaster.

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, Capt_Mainwaring said:

Yes. My 12 minutes for a 20cm change in height of tide was based on a tidal variation of 6m but it yes it could be more or less than that.

To be honest a very high or low pressure system would make a difference of about 20cm too. Seems simple, but there are alot of variable factors to take into account.  

[monasqueen]

19 hours ago, Frances said:

It's only in the last few months I recall the Ben times departing from the standard 8.45am to Heysham and 14:15 return - today's 7:45 allowed passengers off at 12:35 the Ben would given the sea state probably have had the Passengers off by 12:20-12:25 - in the many years of winter crossing it was very rare to get off after 12.30 - the crossing was faster than the previous 3 I've done in last couple of months, the vibration of the engines was definitely considerably more than the Ben and very noticeable. And they haven't yet fixed 1 of the only 2 ladies loos serving the lounges on deck 8, it's been out of order for at least 2 weeks.

The vibration is worse when they try to go at a speed that would get them from one side to the other in less than 4 hours. One of the captains has learned to tweak the handles ever so slightly until he gets to the maximum he can do without huge vibration. The ship can then do up to 18 knots. Most times, she does not get pushed beyond 16 to 17 knots, so most crossings are at least 4 hours.

Ben was scheduled for 3 3/4 hours, and she actually made it within that time. She occasionally managed nearer 3 1/2 hours. If that vibration problem cannot be fixed, Manxman will not only consistently fail to keep to schedule, but she will also be unable to make occasional trips to Liverpool without considerable knock back to later trips.

Wasn't this ship supposed to be faster than Ben??? And potentially able to do 2 round trips to Liverpool in a day???

When I go across on a trip, I am heading somewhere, sometimes with a time limit. I have become used to allowing 24 hours recovery margin, but am having to consider whether I now need to allow 48 hours, and pay for an additional night in a hotel on the way. Coming back over, I am coming home, and I want to get home. 

It seems you now need to think in terms of "this year, next year, sometime, never."

Something also needs to be done about the excessive time that it takes to load and unload.

And she's cancelling trips when the shipping forecast is giving no more that force 7.

Oh, and those toilets... I've never seen both cubicles operational in the Ladies', but the dead tap in the Gents' has now been replaced.

Bring back the old ships.

[monasqueen]

4 hours ago, Frances said:

there is only one train to + from Heysham to Lancaster - that gets into Heysham at 13:10 and departs 13:20 - its now a £21 or £22 taxi fare to/from Lancaster.

The train is supposed to be a connection with the boat. I've seen a bus being used for passengers going to Lancaster when Manxman has failed to get in on time. Last time we travelled, again the ship missed the train, foot passengers wanting to get to Lancaster were paged as we entered the harbour - no doubt well after most had already made their own arrangements for taxis. I don't know what was done for them.

Go to reception first, before you arrange your own taxi.

[ellanvannin2010]

Must be doing well for bookings after Christmas though or something odd going on.

No sailings appear available in either direction for cars on 27th December. There is a 1945 to Heysham on the 26th, next available sailing is from Heysham at 1415 on the 28th.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by ellanvannin2010
Missed a bit

[Two-lane]

8 hours ago, The Phantom said:

You generally have about 30-60 mins at high and low tide called 'slack water' where there is not much tidal movement at all.

The motion is probably a sine wave. (That's supposed to be a joke).

 

[Frances]

4 hours ago, monasqueen said:

The train is supposed to be a connection with the boat. I've seen a bus being used for passengers going to Lancaster when Manxman has failed to get in on time. Last time we travelled, again the ship missed the train, foot passengers wanting to get to Lancaster were paged as we entered the harbour - no doubt well after most had already made their own arrangements for taxis. I don't know what was done for them.

Go to reception first, before you arrange your own taxi.

the train is also timetabled to serve Morecambe + Bare Lane - certainly on Friday the 12:42 departed on time and was announced as serving Heysham (3 of us in the Lounge shared a prebooked taxi )- on the Ben I would always prebook a taxi and sometimes if the Ben was fast and looked in to get in early I'd would phone in a change - the taxi allowed me to guarantee getting on the 13:39 to London whereas the Heysham train would normally wait for this train to depart) - don't forget that people will have booked on trains to Lancaster to connect with this train - the short nature of these changes is the Killer - I was informed at 5.30pm on Weds that the 8.45 on Thursday was cancelled on a false claim it was the weather whereas it was the desire to clear freight including an unusual large lorry with  very large attached trailer carefully backed up the ramp.