John Wright Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I reckon I heard it but I didnt listen. I am not disagreeing with you about that. The concept that you are struggling to grasp is that the announcement is not effective, clearly. Because no one takes notice. They need to freshen it up. Like @woolleyrightly says, anyone with any common sense would not start their engine and idle for 15mins before disembarking. There are lots of people with no common sense. I sont think the announcement has any effect. Even with big fans you will not really beat 5 air changes per hour. Even of you did there will still be exhaust fumes. Extraction is not plug flow so there will be low level areas where fumes will build up ( especially if heavier than air). The ignoring/not listening/not hearing is exactly the same on the boat or the plane. Ineffective, but policed on the plane. The fans are mounted on facing slightly up and one slightly down. And there’s a bloody big hole at the end of the ( open ) deck. Suspect they’d shift more than 5 an hour, but really only used during em or disem barkation and shortly thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: It's not quite the same as the air crew enforce things....like seatbelts. Whereas the SPCO tell you not to start your engines but a good number of people ignore it....including the staff who just walk past. Diesel particulates are now an established causation factor in the development of respiratory disease and cancer. Even with newer vehicles. In fact there is a school of thought that the newer engines are worse as the particulates are finer, can't be smelled or seen and penetrate deep into our lungs. Extractors help but they are only about 50% effective and even really powerful ones can only manage about 4 air changes per hour. They need to up their game and I have told them so. 15 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I reckon I heard it but I didnt listen. I am not disagreeing with you about that. The concept that you are struggling to grasp is that the announcement is not effective, clearly. Because no one takes notice. They need to freshen it up. Like @woolleyrightly says, anyone with any common sense would not start their engine and idle for 15mins before disembarking. There are lots of people with no common sense. I sont think the announcement has any effect. Even with big fans you will not really beat 5 air changes per hour. Even of you did there will still be exhaust fumes. Extraction is not plug flow so there will be low level areas where fumes will build up ( especially if heavier than air). So are you saying big fans are better than really powerful fans?. What about big really powerful fans?. How do you propose to make people listen and obey?. Edited February 6 by ellanvannin2010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 21 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: It might be January, and minus 1, you might want to get your heater going. I suppose that's a consideration for the excessively nesh population of today who never stray more than 10 feet from a central heating radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: How do you propose to make people listen and obey?. Ve haf vays! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: Like @woolleyrightly says, anyone with any common sense would not start their engine and idle for 15mins before disembarking. There are lots of people with no common sense. I've said this before, and it's still valid. Common sense is extracted at birth nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, woolley said: I suppose that's a consideration for the excessively nesh population of today who never stray more than 10 feet from a central heating radiator. Nesh! Haven't heard that for years! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said: So are you saying big fans are better than really powerful fans?. What about big really powerful fans?. How do you propose to make people listen and obey?. In health and safety law you are required to consider the health and welfare of your staff as well as anyone you carry on board. The fans are a secondary mitigation. However the best mitigation is to do something that cures the root of the hazard. That to me is stopping people running their engines when stationary. Doing that would reduce the risk significantly. Therefore I reckon the SPCO have a legal duty to do anything that is reasonably practical to do. Not to rely on fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, John Wright said: The ignoring/not listening/not hearing is exactly the same on the boat or the plane. Ineffective, but policed on the plane. The fans are mounted on facing slightly up and one slightly down. And there’s a bloody big hole at the end of the ( open ) deck. Suspect they’d shift more than 5 an hour, but really only used during em or disem barkation and shortly thereafter. Why can't it be policed on a ship? It's bleeding obvious when vehicles are running as usually their lights are on. Just tell them to switch engines off. It's not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Happier diner said: It's not rocket science. Almost nothing is… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Almost nothing is… Well apart from actual rocket science I suppose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said: So are you saying big fans are better than really powerful fans?. What about big really powerful fans?. How do you propose to make people listen and obey?. Here is the wording of the regulations The law says you must control the risks from hazardous substances (the Controlof Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations (COSHH)). Installing LEV may helpy ou to do this. However, beforehand, you should consider other options first where it’s reasonably practicable to do so, such as: ■ change your method of work so exposure to hazardous substances can nol onger occur; IN OUR EXAMPLE DONT ALLOW PEOPLE TO RUN THEIR VEHICLES ■ substitute the material being used by something safer; ■ reduce the size of the source; ■ modify the process to reduce the duration or frequency of emission; IN OUR EXAMPLE DONT ALLOW PEOPLE TO RUN THEIR VEHICLES UNLESS IT IS ESSENTIAL ■ reduce the number of employees involved with a process; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: 17 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Almost nothing is… Well apart from actual rocket science I suppose.. …hence the “almost”… As a former rocket scientist, I find it a very irritating phrase. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 21 hours ago, Gladys said: Nesh! Haven't heard that for years! I know. Goodness knows how they will fare in the trenches in a Central European winter with the muck and bullets flying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 The Manxman's cracking on at 21.4kn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 46 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: The Manxman's cracking on at 21.4kn: Decent tailwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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