Gladys Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 minute ago, Jarndyce said: You’re just not having enough fun in showbiz, Glad… Have I missed something though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, Gladys said: Have I missed something though? Tuesday by the looks of things 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 8 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: Tuesday by the looks of things 😀 OK, so where am I going wrong? They have to pay to dock their ships anywhere, why should there not be a charge for the new landing facility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 2 minutes ago, Gladys said: OK, so where am I going wrong? They have to pay to dock their ships anywhere, why should there not be a charge for the new landing facility? Well, essentially it's one government cost centre charging another government cost centre. The first government cost centre paid for the facility through direct taxation of the public, and the second one is paying the first through a levy on our tickets. So we, the public, are paying through the nose twice. There will also be a cost to all this, including steam packet paying external legal fees, I imagine. Which we will pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, Gladys said: OK, so where am I going wrong? They have to pay to dock their ships anywhere, why should there not be a charge for the new landing facility? I don't think you're missing anything. It's leasehold, so there will be an annual lease service fee from the builders, which needs to be paid for by government and then billed to the Steam-Packet (or maybe possibly subsidised). There were probably separate negotiations between the builders and the IOM Government and now there are negotiations between IOM Government and the Steam-Packet (who are probably much more commercially savvy than the government and not willing to pay through the nose for original government negotiation failures). Given the ferry terminal cost increases, I suppose it's also feasible that the builders are now also seeking to increase that annual fee. No one gives us the right information, but that's my interpretation of things. But given that it is still not decided how much the Steam Packet will pay, suggests we are not talking anywhere near what they currently pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 "The Isle of Man Government signed a long-term leasehold with Peel, understood to be for around 190 years, on the site in September last year. (2018)" No doubt a sensitive number in some way or other. The article also states "Construction of the £31m ferry terminal...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 21 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: I don't think you're missing anything. It's leasehold, so there will be an annual lease service fee from the builders, which needs to be paid for by government and then billed to the Steam-Packet (or maybe possibly subsidised). There were probably separate negotiations between the builders and the IOM Government and now there are negotiations between IOM Government and the Steam-Packet (who are probably much more commercially savvy than the government and not willing to pay through the nose for original government negotiation failures). Given the ferry terminal cost increases, I suppose it's also feasible that the builders are now also seeking to increase that annual fee. No one gives us the right information, but that's my interpretation of things. But given that it is still not decided how much the Steam Packet will pay, suggests we are not talking anywhere near what they currently pay. Why are the builders leasing government the facility? Government has a long lease with the freeholder and has engaged builders to build it and once complete will make it available to users, ie the Steammie, for a charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 5 minutes ago, Gladys said: Why are the builders leasing government the facility? Government has a long lease with the freeholder and has engaged builders to build it and once complete will make it available to users, ie the Steammie, for a charge. They’re not, I understand government now own the land/building and they built it albeit at a high cost. Steam packet pay rent for existing premises of c£750k Pa so seems realistic for a new purpose built building that a rent of c£1m Pa would be reasonable. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 4 minutes ago, Banker said: They’re not, I understand government now own the land/building and they built it albeit at a high cost. Steam packet pay rent for existing premises of c£750k Pa so seems realistic for a new purpose built building that a rent of c£1m Pa would be reasonable. . Yes, that is what I thought too, except government have a very long lease (don't own it) on the land and have built on it. The Steammie are already paying the thick end of £3/4m for the current landing stage, so why are people surprised that they will have to pay at the new facility? At least it will be going to government and not some completely external party. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 7 minutes ago, Banker said: They’re not, I understand government now own the land/building and they built it albeit at a high cost. Steam packet pay rent for existing premises of c£750k Pa so seems realistic for a new purpose built building that a rent of c£1m Pa would be reasonable. . Banks here are paying more than that here...my monies on the £3m to £5m a year range for the Liverpool terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 25 minutes ago, Gladys said: Why are the builders leasing government the facility? Government has a long lease with the freeholder and has engaged builders to build it and once complete will make it available to users, ie the Steammie, for a charge. Sorry I meant freeholder...not builders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Hang on, let me get this straight. We the greater Manx people (albeit through the clowns in the cake) built a state of the art ferry terminal to dock the ferry's of a shipping company i.e the steam packet, that we the greater Manx people also own. And are going to charge the ferry company through the nose for the privilege of using it, thus the ferry company charges us the terminal and ferry owners more to get from A to B. I am failing to see any advantage in owning one or other and just seems we have incurred a 1/2 billion costs for fuck all. Its no small wonder they do not want you going near the airport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesde Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 And to think it was only last week that the Smarmy Git ot a DOI minister was saying their department had completed everything,and it was all down to Steam Packet now. "The opening of the new Liverpool ferry terminal is "in the hands of the Steam Packet" according to the infrastructure minister." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-in-man Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Apparently the new terminal has already got awards for being the best of it's type ever built, in it's class. (The - 'Dockside Terminals That Cost The Best Part Of £100,000,000.00, Still Not In Use For A Boat That Does Not Like Getting Wet - Class) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: Sorry I meant freeholder...not builders. But the freeholder hasn't built anything, IOMG has hasn't it? ETA it is a very long lease with, you would imagine, nothing or very little provided by the freeholder by way of services, so why would you expect a service charge? There may be ground rent which may be a peppercorn fixed for the life of the lease or a cash amount subject to rent review (with strict parameters, eg inflation only, you would hope), but you wouldn't expect (hope) that to be a substantial sum. It depends on the terms of the lease. Edited May 22 by Gladys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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