Mountain Watch

[WTF]

i suspect there are unmarked vehicles out all the time, just don't drive like a twat.

 

[Annoymouse]

33 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

Somewhat contradictory. You say that speed limits and cameras move the problem somewhere else but regular police patrols and on the spot fines are ideal?  
I think cameras and speed limits would  do quite a good job

Yes, putting combined limits and speed cameras will simply move the problem to somewhere without speed cameras, say the mountain is a 60mph limit, average speed cameras set over the entire length (would probably need to be every mile just to stop people just pulling over and then going for a blast), it will simply move the speeding/idiotic driving issue to roads without cameras, littering the island with speed cameras would cost an absolute fortune.

 

[The Duck of Atholl]

4 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

Yes, putting combined limits and speed cameras will simply move the problem to somewhere without speed cameras, say the mountain is a 60mph limit, average speed cameras set over the entire length (would probably need to be every mile just to stop people just pulling over and then going for a blast), it will simply move the speeding/idiotic driving issue to roads without cameras, littering the island with speed cameras would cost an absolute fortune.

 

My point is how would speed cameras (and their resultant fines) move the problem elsewhere but regular patrols with on the spot fines wouldn’t? What you are saying is that speed cameras would be an effective deterrent but mobile patrols aren’t. The excuse of moving the problem elsewhere ( if that would at all happen)is no reason for not dealing with the current issue. Cost is no excuse.

[Non-Believer]

There is nowhere else to "move the problem" to on the IoM, virtually every other road here is subject to a restriction,  although even those require policing periodically. I see that one of the current tactics appears to be parking unmanned Police cars at various points (Hairpin, East Mountain Gate and Bungalow recently and also at Douglas Rd Corner in Kirk Michael) in the hope that it will make people slow down when they see them.

The current situation is a culture issue combined with far too many people who are incapable of navigating the Mountain Rd without incident in its present unrestricted state. That has financial and inconvenience costs to everybody, to say nothing of the emotional costs to those involved,  especially any innocent parties.

The solution is either to better train every driver which is impractical on cost and time grounds or impose legal restrictions with enforcement, which is the only practical solution.  It won't stop everything but there will be a marked reduction.

No other road on the Island has the incident record of the Mountain and the vast majority of those happen throughout the year other than TT and involve cars rather than bikes. We haven't had a TT for two years and we've still had 70+ incidents up there in less than 18 months.

[Derek Flint]

Average speed cameras change the game. There is a route called the A583 over here, between Preston and Blackpool. It was renowned for being a great road for a hoon, and the casualty levels were high. Now it is controlled for most of its length by average speed cameras and a 50 limit. And it is bloody lovely!

the A588 is another one, heading out over Wyre towards Lancaster. Horrendous collisions. It’s in the middle of nowhere, now has speed cameras and a 50 limit. The problem seems to have gone away. 

Work the solution. “But they will do it somewhere else” is not a mandate to do nothing.

[Lost Login]

8 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

I don’t think a speed limit would actually be enough to stop people being riding or driving like idiots though, 

Stop - No. Reduce - Yes.

That is good enough for me as a starter.

[Annoymouse]

4 hours ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

My point is how would speed cameras (and their resultant fines) move the problem elsewhere but regular patrols with on the spot fines wouldn’t? What you are saying is that speed cameras would be an effective deterrent but mobile patrols aren’t. The excuse of moving the problem elsewhere ( if that would at all happen)is no reason for not dealing with the current issue. Cost is no excuse.

Well in the case of regular patrolling I don’t just mean the mountain rd, there needs to be a higher police presence (and plenty of unmarked cars) all over the islands roads.

[WTF]

16 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Well in the case of regular patrolling I don’t just mean the mountain rd, there needs to be a higher police presence (and plenty of unmarked cars) all over the islands roads.

they'd have to be teslas cos we don't have enough coppers to drive them.

[Annoymouse]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

There is nowhere else to "move the problem" to on the IoM, virtually every other road here is subject to a restriction,  although even those require policing periodically.

A 50mph or 60mph sign doesn’t magically solve the problem, temporary limits for TT get widely ignored, even the ones on the mountain, the section from Waterworks to Gooseneck I was regularly overtaken, a lot of the time by local cars who didn’t give two hoots about the temporary restrictions.

I used to get regularly overtaken on Richmond Hill while doing the speed limit almost every single day, also witnessed plenty of near misses at Fairy Bridge. I’ve had some really close calls at Cronk Y Voddy (normally caused by the junction or the hidden dip.

There is also the road to St Marks that has a 50mph limit and I’ve been overtaken at what must be nearly twice that.

 

[Annoymouse]

2 hours ago, Lost Login said:

Stop - No. Reduce - Yes.

That is good enough for me as a starter.

I don’t think it will, especially when people know there just aren’t any Police on the roads, it doesn’t stop the  pointless overtakes at 8-9am or 5-5.30pm in which people gain about 8 places in the stream of cars, why is that even a thing? 

You could paint the road with double white lines the entire way but it wouldn’t stop overtakes.

[Lost Login]

34 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

I don’t think it will, especially when people know there just aren’t any Police on the roads, it doesn’t stop the  pointless overtakes at 8-9am or 5-5.30pm in which people gain about 8 places in the stream of cars, why is that even a thing? 

You could paint the road with double white lines the entire way but it wouldn’t stop overtakes.

Again it won't stop but it will reduce. I drive on rural roads in the UK where there are average speed cameras, often with 50 mph limits, and as Derek Flint has stated you do see far less idiotic driving and accidents have reduced. Initially idiots did go to other roads so either average speed cameras were introduced there or the police targeted.

I was across recently and driving on some of these roads I saw lots of bikers and now virtually all were in touring mode and I was no longer being over taken by idiots pushing it believing there would be no police around. It is also nice not to be faced by an idiot on the wrong side of the road on a corner because they are pushing it.

This is a matter where there is plenty of evidence from the UK and elsewhere as to whether average speed cameras and reduced speed limits reduce serious accidents. It is no longer a case of just thinking it will or won't make a difference. The evidence is out there.  

[Derek Flint]

7 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

Well in the case of regular patrolling I don’t just mean the mountain rd, there needs to be a higher police presence (and plenty of unmarked cars) all over the islands roads.

I wasa big advocate of unmarked cars, and bikes. I created that “The Force is Behind You” campaign we did a few years ago for TT, raising awareness of the use of unmarked bikes, and I brought I the two legendary ST Focus stealth bombers, which were fantastic enforcement tools.

I actually pitched an idea to make the entire traffic fleet unmarked, and then have a big PR campaign highlighting that any car behind you might in fact be driven by plod. I think it would have worked, but unsurprisingly too creative, too brave and too bold.

 

7 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

I don’t think it will, especially when people know there just aren’t any Police on the roads, it doesn’t stop the  pointless overtakes at 8-9am or 5-5.30pm in which people gain about 8 places in the stream of cars, why is that even a thing? 

You could paint the road with double white lines the entire way but it wouldn’t stop overtakes.

No police on the roads. That rot started with Gary Roberts taking a sgt and 3 off me in 2006 to form a proactive unit to deal with crime in Douglas. 

Burglars don’t tend to kill and maim. But hey, there you go. I sincerely hope the new CC gets a proper grip of the issue as it doesn’t ever seem to get the support it needs as an issue.

[cissolt]

5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

No police on the roads. That rot started with Gary Roberts taking a sgt and 3 off me in 2006 to form a proactive unit to deal with crime in Douglas. 

Burglars don’t tend to kill and maim. But hey, there you go. I sincerely hope the new CC gets a proper grip of the issue as it doesn’t ever seem to get the support it needs as an issue.

I can see the logic in creating a proactive unit to deal with crime in Douglas but it obviously failed massively.

Half the island knew where the group of burglars were staying, shame the relationship with the police down south was so poor nobody wanted to mention it to them.

[Derek Flint]

13 minutes ago, cissolt said:

I can see the logic in creating a proactive unit to deal with crime in Douglas but it obviously failed massively.

Half the island knew where the group of burglars were staying, shame the relationship with the police down south was so poor nobody wanted to mention it to them.

The burglary issue was long, long after that team had been absorbed into the HQ proactive unit whilst an under resourced RPU continued to do what it could in the absence of any strategy. I had huge hopes that the National Road Safety Strategy would move things forward, but it hasn’t. 

[ellanvannin2010]

53 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I wasa big advocate of unmarked cars, and bikes. I created that “The Force is Behind You” campaign we did a few years ago for TT, raising awareness of the use of unmarked bikes, and I brought I the two legendary ST Focus stealth bombers, which were fantastic enforcement tools.

I actually pitched an idea to make the entire traffic fleet unmarked, and then have a big PR campaign highlighting that any car behind you might in fact be driven by plod. I think it would have worked, but unsurprisingly too creative, too brave and too bold.

 

No police on the roads. That rot started with Gary Roberts taking a sgt and 3 off me in 2006 to form a proactive unit to deal with crime in Douglas. 

Burglars don’t tend to kill and maim. But hey, there you go. I sincerely hope the new CC gets a proper grip of the issue as it doesn’t ever seem to get the support it needs as an issue.

Is it the police that suggest speed limits on the roads or the DOI?.

To me it is pointless putting speed limits on the mountain road unless backed up with average speed cameras.