Mountain Watch

[Annoymouse]

47 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

Went over the mountain this morning and with the heavy rain it was badly flooded in places.

I can see more accidents up there this winter due to aquaplaning as the pools or more accurately, lakes of water this morning were mostly new, seem to be caused by drains full of big weeds..................

All season tyres or full Winters come in quite handy for that, it’s a shame that most people are just accustomed to fitting the cheapest available summer tyres rather than what actually offers the most grip.

[Lightening McQueen]

3 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

All season tyres or full Winters come in quite handy for that, it’s a shame that most people are just accustomed to fitting the cheapest available summer tyres rather than what actually offers the most grip.

No excuse for poor/no maintenance of the road though.

[flaps]

I'm amazed that road safety wasn't a bigger issue in the run up to the election. None of the candidates in my constituency gave it more than the briefest mention in their manifesto. I think it's seen as a contentious issue, so they are afraid to say anything. The interviews in the newspaper almost all said they wouldn't support an all island speed limit.

A couple of years ago, just before covid, the new road safety strategy document was released, and it was a deeply flawed piece, full of contradictions. The vision for the strategy is: "A future where no-one is killed or sustains serious/life changing injuries on our roads". There's lots of talk of the fatal four, and safe systems approach etc, which is all good, but then there's stuff like "Speed Limits will not be considered on a blanket basis, rather on a case by case basis, informed by evidence". Well, clearly, if this was true, there would be a heavily policed speed limit on the mountain road, as their own evidence shows there is a high number of speed-related collisions; often single vehicle. So, the strategy is obviously just words on a page to look good, and not something that happens in real life. 

The figures quoted are sobering - averaging around 1000 RTC's per year, 238 with injuries (many will be more than one person injured, so the number of people injured will be much higher than the number of injury collisions), 58 seriously injured, and 7 fatals. So, roughly, there's 2 or 3 crashes (that the police know about) every day, one of which will involve injury. Someone seriously injured at least one per week, and a fatality every couple of months. Disappointingly, the accompanying Action Plan document has lots of waffle about gathering evidence, analysing data, reviewing strategy etc, but very little about actually doing anything. The problem with "gathering evidence", is that if you do that for, say 5 more years, that's another few hundred seriously injured and 35 dead. It seems to me that it would be better to do something now than faff about behind a desk looking at graphs for a few more years. In the 5 years 2013-17 29 dead, 217 seriously injured - and it would seem nobody is interested in doing anything about it.

[CallMeCurious]

1 hour ago, flaps said:

I'm amazed that road safety wasn't a bigger issue in the run up to the election. None of the candidates in my constituency gave it more than the briefest mention in their manifesto. I think it's seen as a contentious issue, so they are afraid to say anything. The interviews in the newspaper almost all said they wouldn't support an all island speed limit.

A couple of years ago, just before covid, the new road safety strategy document was released, and it was a deeply flawed piece, full of contradictions. The vision for the strategy is: "A future where no-one is killed or sustains serious/life changing injuries on our roads". There's lots of talk of the fatal four, and safe systems approach etc, which is all good, but then there's stuff like "Speed Limits will not be considered on a blanket basis, rather on a case by case basis, informed by evidence". Well, clearly, if this was true, there would be a heavily policed speed limit on the mountain road, as their own evidence shows there is a high number of speed-related collisions; often single vehicle. So, the strategy is obviously just words on a page to look good, and not something that happens in real life. 

The figures quoted are sobering - averaging around 1000 RTC's per year, 238 with injuries (many will be more than one person injured, so the number of people injured will be much higher than the number of injury collisions), 58 seriously injured, and 7 fatals. So, roughly, there's 2 or 3 crashes (that the police know about) every day, one of which will involve injury. Someone seriously injured at least one per week, and a fatality every couple of months. Disappointingly, the accompanying Action Plan document has lots of waffle about gathering evidence, analysing data, reviewing strategy etc, but very little about actually doing anything. The problem with "gathering evidence", is that if you do that for, say 5 more years, that's another few hundred seriously injured and 35 dead. It seems to me that it would be better to do something now than faff about behind a desk looking at graphs for a few more years. In the 5 years 2013-17 29 dead, 217 seriously injured - and it would seem nobody is interested in doing anything about it.

The truly sad part is a lot of issues are down to maintenance, or lack of it, on our roads. Neglect basically. You only have to look at the basics like signage, road markings, cat's eyes, over grown hedges etc. Gutters not just full of debris but mulch it has been there so long and things actually growing.

I remember a few years back after we had a hard freeze for several days, all of those little potholes and cracks in the surface blew apart because the water that had penetrated belwo the surface froze and blew apart the binding. And if not fixed right away then water sits in those spots and each time a vehicle passes over it the water compresses and pushes further down. And thats without the poorly filled services trenches (Victoria Road is a classic example of that).

So instead of a few million blitzing this basic stuff (pity we didnt have a year or two with no motor sport events and light traffic eh?) and then following it up year on year with preventative, stitch in time, repairs we end up with the multimillion pound vanity projects and short stretches of nice road that remind you what it would like if they were a ll like that.

What mystifies me is how anyone in the DoI can drive on these roads and ignore the evidence they must see themselves. Do the basics.

BTW this is also endemic in properties too. Build it, neglect it (spend the maintenance budget on decoration and 'fun stuff' because you could never get a business case to fly otherwise.) and then when things fall apart build another new one and start again. Again the basics. 

Clear the gutters, clean the paintwork, fix the loose handle, replace the cracked paving or missing slate. Because that way you save money in the long run and free up resources to maintain other buildings (or roads) better. Most of it might be labour intensive but it's not highly skilled, which would be a fantastic opportunity for the unskilled to get back into work.

It was before my time but I believe there was a winter works scheme where things like this were done by guys who's summer work in the fields and boats stopped.   

 

[James Blonde]

10 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

 

I can see more accidents up there this winter due to aquaplaning as the pools

Could people just drive to the conditions and maybe slow down to avoid aquaplaning?

[Annoymouse]

5 hours ago, Lightening McQueen said:

No excuse for poor/no maintenance of the road though.

Good insight into what roads will look like on the IOM If we didn’t have TT/MGP, I’ve never seen the roads get in such a poor state, but especially on the TT course. I still think people need to be more responsibility for their own actions and make sure their vehicles are fit for the road before criticising the DOI.

[Derek Flint]

Believe me, if you think Manx roads are bad, you should see the state of some over here!

[Feelslike]

15 hours ago, James Blonde said:

Could people just drive to the conditions and maybe slow down to avoid aquaplaning?

At this time of year when we have persistent heavy rain there are a couple places, directly on or straight after corners, that have streams running across them long after the rest the of the road has dried off. 

You shouldn't have to rely on local knowledge to negotiate the roads safely. 

[Boris Johnson]

2 minutes ago, Feelslike said:

At this time of year when we have persistent heavy rain there are a couple places, directly on or straight after corners, that have streams running across them long after the rest the of the road has dried off. 

You shouldn't have to rely on local knowledge to negotiate the roads safely. 

This is what I was getting at.

I know where to look out for water and due to a defensive driving style will be okay.

Its the young un's and BMW drivers I worry about, driving like idiots without care or understanding of the road conditions ahead.

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

Believe me, if you think Manx roads are bad, you should see the state of some over here!

We don’t have as many pot holes as rural places in the UK that’s for certain but the issue we do have is they get badly over filled and when resurfaced it doesn’t get planed down level so it’s like driving on the moon, so rather than crashing over/into the occasional pot hole, it’s our shocks that get a decent workout instead. The section from Sulby Ginger to Ramsey is the worst I’ve seen it, certainly in the last 30 years anyway.

[WTF]

39 minutes ago, Feelslike said:

At this time of year when we have persistent heavy rain there are a couple places, directly on or straight after corners, that have streams running across them long after the rest the of the road has dried off. 

You shouldn't have to rely on local knowledge to negotiate the roads safely. 

if the doi did a proper job with drainage there wouldn't be any streams or rivers across the roads to worry about.

[Feelslike]

1 minute ago, WTF said:

if the doi did a proper job with drainage there wouldn't be any streams or rivers across the roads to worry about.

I don't disagree. The volume of water actually got worse after they had an attempt at resurfacing a few years ago. They had some contractors working on the access to the marshals hut on the other bend in more recent years and the water got worse on that bend, too. 

I don't even think it's lack of maintenance - it's the fact large swathes of the road are designed to help, or at least not hinder, 4 weeks of racing. 

[Boris Johnson]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

Believe me, if you think Manx roads are bad, you should see the state of some over here!

Are they main roads, A or B in the UK type roads though?

We seem to have back roads like a billiard table and main roads like the moon.................

[Shake me up Judy]

This whole subject is an indicator of the utter futility of Manx politics. Despite the reputation of the Mountain Road as one of the most dangerous and fastest roads in the U.K. and the many fatalities, serious injuries, and innocent victims; there is still no action. Every expert on road safety, anywhere in the world, on every continent would agree; but a powerful and influential motor sport and motor industry lobby on the IOM continues to block all meaningful discussion and to frame the debate at legislative, political and community level. There is no pressure from the police and emergency services or medical professionals; and Derek (Who had to pick up the pieces) was and is a lone voice. The politicians and media won't go anywhere near it and a large section of the public see it as part of their inalienable Manx heritage. As usual it will take a decision made in the U.K. before anything changes. If you voted last week you were wasting your time.

[Boris Johnson]

34 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

This whole subject is an indicator of the utter futility of Manx politics. Despite the reputation of the Mountain Road as one of the most dangerous and fastest roads in the U.K. and the many fatalities, serious injuries, and innocent victims; there is still no action. Every expert on road safety, anywhere in the world, on every continent would agree; but a powerful and influential motor sport and motor industry lobby on the IOM continues to block all meaningful discussion and to frame the debate at legislative, political and community level. There is no pressure from the police and emergency services or medical professionals; and Derek (Who had to pick up the pieces) was and is a lone voice. The politicians and media won't go anywhere near it and a large section of the public see it as part of their inalienable Manx heritage. As usual it will take a decision made in the U.K. before anything changes. If you voted last week you were wasting your time.

Perfectly said.

Why oh why cant they see this?

The road is totally unsuitable for unlimited speeds. its not an engineered road for a start, there are many more reasons too.

I hold every NEW MHK PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for any new DEATHS on the mountain road from now until they do something about it.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Boris Johnson