Mountain Watch

[Chris C]

1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

You're missing my point. I'm saying that Manx democracy doesn't really result in anything meaningful, and that the real politics, decision making, authority, influence, pressure etc; is outside of Tynwald and the electoral process. I also said that every expert in the world would agree. Take another look.  

But you could say that our lack of national speed limit is something meaningful that has come from our democracy.  It's one of the more radical uses of our degree of independence.  

The subject has been discussed frequently at various levels and despite people such as yourself coming out with baseless claims such as being one of the most dangerous roads in the UK (despite it not even being in the UK), and prejudging the opinion of every road safety expert on the planet, the democratic process has retained it as is. 

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say decisions like this are made beyond the Manx democratic process, sounds like a load of conspiracy theory bollocks to me. 

[James Blonde]

I'm convinced nothing can ever seriously improve the Mountain road. 

Sad but true. Some just regard it as their god given right to treat it like a race track. 

Limits, cameras, education, whatever. Nothing will improve it.

 

If it's really a road then put cats eyes on it for low visibility...

Edited October 1, 2021 by James Blonde

[Max Power]

7 minutes ago, James Blonde said:

If it's really a road then put cats eyes on it for low visibility...

It has Cat's Eyes, at the side of the road, white on the left, red on the right.

[quilp]

8 hours ago, Chris C said:

But you could say that our lack of national speed limit is something meaningful that has come from our democracy.  It's one of the more radical uses of our degree of independence. 

Well, you could but it isn't really. 

[CallMeCurious]

7 hours ago, Max Power said:

It has Cat's Eyes, at the side of the road, white on the left, red on the right.

Cat's Eyes which are designed to self-clean when driven over? The Cat's Eyes that can be on the outside of the white line or the inside it but rarely on it.

The Cat's Eyes that are meant to be red on the left hand-edge of a carriageway, white in the centre and green at junctions/slipways? Though I admit that might only be on motorways.

http://www.trafficsignsandmeanings.co.uk/history-cats-eyes-function-for-road-user.html

Those the things we are talking about?

Much like the self-righting and self-repairing broken faded skewed black and white bollards that once had red reflectors on them.

As with all things DoI, half-arsed and negelected when it comes to ordinary road users.

[The Duck of Atholl]

 It doesn't matter how good at driving everyone thinks they are (and they're probably not)  The frequency of accidents on the Mountain means it needs speed regulation. if you can't see that then I think your judgement is questionable

[James Blonde]

9 hours ago, Max Power said:

It has Cat's Eyes, at the side of the road, white on the left, red on the right.

Down the middle?

[bonatti]

There is no doubt that people treat and see the mountain road differently to any other road on the island. Normal driver behavior goes out the window. 

As a regular user, i see more occurrences of tailgating than on any other road. And very, very frequently see drivers crossing over into the opposite lane to cut corners despite traffic coming the other way. Behavior that is far less evident everywhere else.

 With regulation, attitudes would change, as was proven with the 40 mph speed limit during lockdown. That was a bit extreme and very frustrating at times, but also quite pleasant not having the daily near miss occurrences that are common place up there.

The mountain road is probably the safest section of the TT course for the racing, but the most dangerous for road users. Funny that. 

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

 It doesn't matter how good at driving everyone thinks they are (and they're probably not)  The frequency of accidents on the Mountain means it needs speed regulation. if you can't see that then I think your judgement is questionable

The general consensus seems to have changed, certainly if this forum is anything to go by? perhaps it’s time for another speed limit consultation? All for a speed limit if it’s going to be regularly patrolled, perhaps a variable speed limit depending on conditions?

[quilp]

7 minutes ago, bonatti said:

There is no doubt that people treat and see the mountain road differently to any other road on the island. Normal driver behavior goes out the window.

[it's]... probably the safest section of the TT course for the racing, but the most dangerous for road users.

Exactly. 

9 hours ago, Chris C said:

But you could say that our lack of national speed limit is something meaningful... 

What? 

9 hours ago, Chris C said:

... that has come from our democracy. It's one of the more radical uses of our degree of independence.

😄 That's a ridiculously feeble and stupidly romantic reason to allow people, like you, to drive how you like. It's utter nonsense. Most people would put safety over those who want to drive as fast as they desire and if people don't like it they'd better watch out. I don't want a "radical" interpretation applied to the safety of others.

9 hours ago, Chris C said:

The subject has been discussed frequently at various levels and despite people such as yourself coming out with baseless claims such as being one of the most dangerous roads in the UK (despite it not even being in the UK), and prejudging the opinion of every road safety expert on the planet, the democratic process has retained it as is. 

Aye, righto. Just what are the opinions of "every road safety expert on the planet" specifically, when it comes to evaluating road safety on an basically unknown stretch of road on a relatively inconsequential small Island?

Time for another public consultation, then.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, James Blonde said:

Down the middle?

No. Because, whilst that would significantly aid the general safety of the road, it would upset the racers.....who don't like racing on real roads. Same on Peel Road. Deathtrap.

[The Duck of Atholl]

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

The general consensus seems to have changed, certainly if this forum is anything to go by? perhaps it’s time for another speed limit consultation? All for a speed limit if it’s going to be regularly patrolled, perhaps a variable speed limit depending on conditions?

Interesting but what are you seeking to achieve by way of a variable speed limit?  Are you saying on bright sunny days it can be treated more like a track? Would a 60 mph limit on the clearer sections with good v-fore not suffice? and much reduced speeds at notorious spots?

[Chris C]

Surely if you consider it unsafe the thing to do would be to not use it. A vast majority of roads on the island are restricted, use them instead!

Instead of trying to enforce your views on the majority of people who have used it safely for years and are happy to continue using it despite the dangers you speak of.

Look at the volume of traffic on it any weekday morning vs the coast road or Cronk y Voddey road. These aren't wreckless, uneducated thrill seekers with a death wish, nor are they forced into using the road. 

The idea that you need to save people from themselves is condescending, arrogant and undemocratic, if you think the roads is dangerous don't use it and leave everyone else to get on with it. 

 

 

[Derek Flint]

12 hours ago, Chris C said:

But you could say that our lack of national speed limit is something meaningful that has come from our democracy.  It's one of the more radical uses of our degree of independence.  

The subject has been discussed frequently at various levels and despite people such as yourself coming out with baseless claims such as being one of the most dangerous roads in the UK (despite it not even being in the UK), and prejudging the opinion of every road safety expert on the planet, the democratic process has retained it as is. 

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say decisions like this are made beyond the Manx democratic process, sounds like a load of conspiracy theory bollocks to me. 

 

12 hours ago, James Blonde said:

I'm convinced nothing can ever seriously improve the Mountain road. 

Sad but true. Some just regard it as their god given right to treat it like a race track. 

Limits, cameras, education, whatever. Nothing will improve it.

 

If it's really a road then put cats eyes on it for low visibility...

Pointless if you don’t put them down the middle. Can’t do due to racing.

4 hours ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

 It doesn't matter how good at driving everyone thinks they are (and they're probably not)  The frequency of accidents on the Mountain means it needs speed regulation. if you can't see that then I think your judgement is questionable

I disagree. It needs route management, of which speed regulation may or may not be part of the equation.

2 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

The general consensus seems to have changed, certainly if this forum is anything to go by? perhaps it’s time for another speed limit consultation? All for a speed limit if it’s going to be regularly patrolled, perhaps a variable speed limit depending on conditions?

That ship has sailed. We have a National Road Safety Strategy. Safer speed forms part of that. You cannot now consult on part of the model. 

[WTF]

2 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

 perhaps a variable speed limit depending on conditions?

we already have that, 300mph if its good weather ranging down to 0mph (shut) if there's a snowflake .