Mountain Watch

[The Duck of Atholl]

46 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

 

Pointless if you don’t put them down the middle. Can’t do due to racing.

I disagree. It needs route management, of which speed regulation may or may not be part of the equation.

That ship has sailed. We have a National Road Safety Strategy. Safer speed forms part of that. You cannot now consult on part of the model. 

Not sure what route management entails Derek. Can you point to existing examples on similar roads elsewhere?

[Max Power]

I think I can almost guarantee that cats eyes in the centre and a 60mph speed limit would do very little to reduce accidents on the Mountain Road. It's a main route, if not the main route between Ramsey and Douglas and traffic can be very intermittently heavy. The road has good visibility which encourages the overtaking of slow vehicles, but also has some tricky bends and sequences. It's a typical mountain type road. People can overshoot bends through lack of concentration, leading to severe accidents at fairly low speeds.

I wouldn't object to a 60mph limit by the way! 

 

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, Max Power said:

I think I can almost guarantee that cats eyes in the centre and a 60mph speed limit would do very little to reduce accidents on the Mountain Road. It's a main route, if not the main route between Ramsey and Douglas and traffic can be very intermittently heavy. The road has good visibility which encourages the overtaking of slow vehicles, but also has some tricky bends and sequences. It's a typical mountain type road. People can overshoot bends through lack of concentration, leading to severe accidents at fairly low speeds.

I wouldn't object to a 60mph limit by the way! 

 

The visibility isn't so good in low cloud.....about 200 days a year. But I know what you mean.

Have you driven on the shore rd Gansey in the dark. It's like Blackpool illuminations with all those lovely new cats eyes. Genuine question, if they are no use why do authoritys keep fitting them.

Peel road is the worst IMO though. It's hard to make out the edges never mind the centre. 

[wrighty]

1 minute ago, Max Power said:

I think I can almost guarantee that cats eyes in the centre and a 60mph speed limit would do very little to reduce accidents on the Mountain Road. It's a main route, if not the main route between Ramsey and Douglas and traffic can be very intermittently heavy. The road has good visibility which encourages the overtaking of slow vehicles, but also has some tricky bends and sequences. It's a typical mountain type road. People can overshoot bends through lack of concentration, leading to severe accidents at fairly low speeds.

I wouldn't object to a 60mph limit by the way! 

 

What would reduce the accidents is a change in the culture of the road, which is that it is a limitless speed driver’s playground. Putting a speed limit on it, adding cats eyes, and removing the permanent race track signage would in time help in that regard. 

[cissolt]

8 minutes ago, wrighty said:

What would reduce the accidents is a change in the culture of the road, which is that it is a limitless speed driver’s playground. Putting a speed limit on it, adding cats eyes, and removing the permanent race track signage would in time help in that regard. 

Closing it for government and police backed driving events for old rich men also sends out the message that it's fine to race over the mountain......as long as your rich.

[Max Power]

4 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Closing it for government and police backed driving events for old rich men also sends out the message that it's fine to race over the mountain......as long as your rich.

You don't have to be rich, just an enthusiast, particularly on classic car events. 

The reason it's closed is so that they don't go like lunatics on open roads.

The IoM isn't the only place which allows this sort of thing.

[Max Power]

17 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

The visibility isn't so good in low cloud.....about 200 days a year. But I know what you mean.

Have you driven on the shore rd Gansey in the dark. It's like Blackpool illuminations with all those lovely new cats eyes. Genuine question, if they are no use why do authoritys keep fitting them.

Peel road is the worst IMO though. It's hard to make out the edges never mind the centre. 

As you mentioned earlier, it would create a problem for racers. I guess we have to decide whether we want the races then?

[Non-Believer]

I drove over the Mountain today just before mid-day, the rain was torrential. The section from Windy to the 33rd was virtually under water because due to the vegetation build-up on the valley side of the road the water cannot escape from the road surface. It was unable to escape from the road because rivers of water were already running down the edge of the verge with nowhere else to go but follow the road or back up across the road.

The verges (and elsewhere too) need heavily cutting or even raking off with a digger bucket to allow water to escape. The road is built on the side of a hill for Chrissakes, it should have natural drainage.

Almost a year ago the DOI announced that the Mountain was to shut for two weeks to allow drainage maintenance work. It didn't happen. The longer they leave it, the more requires doing.

[quilp]

Perhaps speed humps at the entrances of problematic roundabouts would help, and lessen collisions. It would stop the likes of the total prick in a Ridgeway Gas van this morning barrelling over the QB westward, almost colliding with a bus which was already and obviously moving off. The (young) arrogant bastard even had the audacity to sound the horn and wave his arms around after having to slam his brakes on. 

[Happier diner]

15 minutes ago, quilp said:

Perhaps speed humps at the entrances of problematic roundabouts would help, and lessen collisions. It would stop the likes of the total prick in a Ridgeway Gas van this morning barrelling over the QB westward, almost colliding with a bus which was already and obviously moving off. The (young) arrogant bastard even had the audacity to sound the horn and wave his arms around after having to slam his brakes on. 

Mountain? 😄

[AcousticallyChallenged]

5 hours ago, bonatti said:

 With regulation, attitudes would change, as was proven with the 40 mph speed limit during lockdown. That was a bit extreme and very frustrating at times, but also quite pleasant not having the daily near miss occurrences that are common place up there.

I think that's a false equivalence. The 40mph limit coincided with an enforced push for essential journeys only and a lockdown. There was a huge reduction in traffic on the roads.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

15 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

Some motorcycle owners are just as bad, riding around with slack chains, some not oiled enough/never cleaned or the reverse over oiled and flicking crap absolutely everywhere. You’d think a motorcycle rider would especially care about self preservation but the amount who will ride until the chain falls off or is close to failing is absolutely frightening, there must have be some RTCs as a result of this over the years, especially given the speeds regularly achieved on the mountain.

Have you ridden one with mixed brands/tread even when new? I’ve had people tell me they can’t really tell the difference and yet I’ve found when pushing on it’s really noticeable, I’ve had to check it wasn’t the swing arm or headstock bearings as it literally felt like the bike was trying to swap ends! How about the guy who’d ridden with his tire fitted backwards and never noticed? that was a fun conversation to have with an ‘experienced’ motorcyclist, who initially told me I was wrong until I showed him the rotational arrow. Apparently it was the tire fitters fault!? luckily he was only a fair weather rider.

There just isn’t enough information about tyres or vehicle care in general, the vast majority of folk just jump straight in their car and turn the key without looking over anything, it’s only when it either stops running or starts making a funny noise that they’ll bother to visit a garage. If people didn’t get service reminders on their car they probably wouldn’t bother doing that either.

I imagine the police will be advertising their winter stop checks soon, most garages will see a sudden flurry of customers wanting the obvious things checked (lights and tyres) , really needs to be more stop checks all year round.

Experience days at jurby for all drivers would be an easy one, needs a skid pad, worn tyres V new, simulated punctures/blow outs, I’d also like to show the difference of summer - winter - all season tyres in wet weather, It’s a night and day difference.

I'd agree that vehicular maintenance is a big issue on the Island.

Look on any of the local classifieds, and you can quite happily pick up an old banger for a couple hundred quid that would've been scrapped as beyond economic repair across. I saw one the other day where it 'either needed brake pads or brake fluid'. You can see cars and vans with rust holes you could put a fist through. You can guarantee that bushes and shock absorbers and brakes will be equally as far gone.

Plenty of people treat cars as a disposable thing, potentially taking them to see a garage when something falls off, but servicing can be an abstract concept. The lack of any reason to take a car to a garage when it is behaving doesn't help. Modern engines will suffer neglect for a long time before going pop.

Though, o and x-ring chains will suffer neglect well, all the important lubrication is sealed inside the rollers, and manufacturers will still often recommend 80w90 or similar gear oil. Gear oil makes a dreadful mess no matter how much you use, but it leaves chains in a lovely state.

Modern tyres are magic, unless you're pushing on, they'll forgive a lot. Just ask the traffic officers across, who are taught to press on at triple digits in the pouring rain. I've had garages fit the wrong tyres before, they've put a front tyre on the back wheel going the wrong way. It happens, and if you've gotten new tyres at the start of the season, you'll trust the garage if it has just been in for a once over.

In some countries, a skid pad is mandatory training before getting your driver's license. The state of the roads, especially in winter, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing here either.

[ellanvannin2010]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

I drove over the Mountain today just before mid-day, the rain was torrential. The section from Windy to the 33rd was virtually under water because due to the vegetation build-up on the valley side of the road the water cannot escape from the road surface. It was unable to escape from the road because rivers of water were already running down the edge of the verge with nowhere else to go but follow the road or back up across the road.

The verges (and elsewhere too) need heavily cutting or even raking off with a digger bucket to allow water to escape. The road is built on the side of a hill for Chrissakes, it should have natural drainage.

Almost a year ago the DOI announced that the Mountain was to shut for two weeks to allow drainage maintenance work. It didn't happen. The longer they leave it, the more requires doing.

The problem with the DOI using the tractor  flail for cutting the vegetation is that they do not rake off the cut grass and debris and clean it up, this then just collects and block any drains or rots slowly away allowing vegetation to start growing in it.

A byproduct of this is it reduces the biodiversity of the verges as the cut grass stifles all the weaker plants and only the vigorous stuff survives.

Plus the days of having local crews who knew the local drains and kept them clear have gone to be replaced by pen pushers

Edited October 2, 2021 by ellanvannin2010

[quilp]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Mountain? 😄

Use it as an example of careless, reckless, due care and attention drivng, all of which applies anywhere and everywhere on the Island. The root of the problem. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by quilp

[Happier diner]

54 minutes ago, quilp said:

Use it as an example of careless, reckless, due care and attention drivng, all of which applies anywhere and everywhere on the Island. The root of the problem. 

Fair comment. Thought you had got cross threaded.