Roger Mexico Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Chris C said: Surely if you consider it unsafe the thing to do would be to not use it. A vast majority of roads on the island are restricted, use them instead! Instead of trying to enforce your views on the majority of people who have used it safely for years and are happy to continue using it despite the dangers you speak of. This may come as a revelation to you, I hope you're sitting down. But most people driving on this and every other road are doing so as to get from A to B - in this case Douglas/Ramsey. So saying that instead they should go from C to D or even from A to B via Q is rather missing the point. They want to go from A to B safely and have just as much right to do so as anyone else. One thing I have noticed is many motorists on the Island seem to believe that they speak for the 'majority of people' based on a sample of exactly 1. This allegedly communal view seem to consist of "I should be allowed to drive wherever I want, as fast as I want , without anything getting in my way, because I am the bestest driver in the whole world, ever". Presumably every other driver will be happy to get off the roads to allow this paragon unlimited playtime. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 58 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: This may come as a revelation to you, I hope you're sitting down. But most people driving on this and every other road are doing so as to get from A to B - in this case Douglas/Ramsey. So saying that instead they should go from C to D or even from A to B via Q is rather missing the point. They want to go from A to B safely and have just as much right to do so as anyone else. One thing I have noticed is many motorists on the Island seem to believe that they speak for the 'majority of people' based on a sample of exactly 1. This allegedly communal view seem to consist of "I should be allowed to drive wherever I want, as fast as I want , without anything getting in my way, because I am the bestest driver in the whole world, ever". Presumably every other driver will be happy to get off the roads to allow this paragon unlimited playtime. Oddly enough surveys say most drivers rate themselves better than average. Funny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Chris C said: The idea that you need to save people from themselves is condescending, arrogant and undemocratic, if you think the roads is dangerous don't use it and leave everyone else to get on with it. Undemocratic? Surely we have laws and rules for exactly that reason. Crash helmets, seat belts, air bags, driving licenses, insurance, speed limits, road markings, indicators, traffic control, pedestrian crossings, police... all legislated by our democratically elected law makers to help people save themselves. i.e. to prevent accidents and the consequences of accidents. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 On 10/2/2021 at 12:39 PM, The Duck of Atholl said: Not sure what route management entails Derek. Can you point to existing examples on similar roads elsewhere? It’s essentially taking a risk based systems approach to route safety. Define your objective, Scan, analyse, determine options, or a suite of options, respond with application and assess the results. On 10/2/2021 at 1:21 PM, Max Power said: I think I can almost guarantee that cats eyes in the centre and a 60mph speed limit would do very little to reduce accidents on the Mountain Road. It's a main route, if not the main route between Ramsey and Douglas and traffic can be very intermittently heavy. The road has good visibility which encourages the overtaking of slow vehicles, but also has some tricky bends and sequences. It's a typical mountain type road. People can overshoot bends through lack of concentration, leading to severe accidents at fairly low speeds. I wouldn't object to a 60mph limit by the way! It would - see below On 10/2/2021 at 1:26 PM, wrighty said: What would reduce the accidents is a change in the culture of the road, which is that it is a limitless speed driver’s playground. Putting a speed limit on it, adding cats eyes, and removing the permanent race track signage would in time help in that regard. This On 10/2/2021 at 1:35 PM, cissolt said: Closing it for government and police backed driving events for old rich men also sends out the message that it's fine to race over the mountain......as long as your rich. Disagree. It’s that demarcation as to open roads and closed roads which is sadly missing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 20 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: It’s essentially taking a risk based systems approach to route safety. Define your objective, Scan, analyse, determine options, or a suite of options, respond with application and assess the results. It would - see below This Disagree. It’s that demarcation as to open roads and closed roads which is sadly missing. The bend markers and any race equipment were at one time always removed after racing. It's only recently that they have been left up, supposedly for tourism reasons, like the rotten scoreboards. There were still severe accidents on the mountain road and I lost a few friends up there! The problem I believe is that we assume too much! We assume that people on the mountain are trying to emulate TT riders, in a car?! This is pretty much bollocks in most cases, the layout of the road invites people to press on a bit, then they find that they can't negotiate the upcoming bend. A speed limit would need proper enforcement 24 hours a day, otherwise people will ignore it, as they do elsewhere. It may discourage those who regularly exceed 100mph or more though? Cats eyes don't really make any real difference if they are at the side or centre of the road to most, if any, accidents that happen on the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duck of Atholl Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Max Power said: The bend markers and any race equipment were at one time always removed after racing. It's only recently that they have been left up, supposedly for tourism reasons, like the rotten scoreboards. There were still severe accidents on the mountain road and I lost a few friends up there! The problem I believe is that we assume too much! We assume that people on the mountain are trying to emulate TT riders, in a car?! This is pretty much bollocks in most cases, the layout of the road invites people to press on a bit, then they find that they can't negotiate the upcoming bend. A speed limit would need proper enforcement 24 hours a day, otherwise people will ignore it, as they do elsewhere. It may discourage those who regularly exceed 100mph or more though? Cats eyes don't really make any real difference if they are at the side or centre of the road to most, if any, accidents that happen on the mountain. Cameras 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said: Cameras Yes, and I personally don't think a limit would affect the TT and MGP. The vast majority of motorcyclists are sensible and only want to ride the course. We keep pandering to the lunatic fringe! And we seem to grow our own lunatics too... http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=63873&headline=R plate dangerous driver's car collided with embankment§ionIs=news&searchyear=2021 Edited October 3, 2021 by Max Power 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 8 hours ago, Max Power said: The bend markers and any race equipment were at one time always removed after racing. It's only recently that they have been left up, supposedly for tourism reasons, like the rotten scoreboards. There were still severe accidents on the mountain road and I lost a few friends up there! The problem I believe is that we assume too much! We assume that people on the mountain are trying to emulate TT riders, in a car?! This is pretty much bollocks in most cases, the layout of the road invites people to press on a bit, then they find that they can't negotiate the upcoming bend. A speed limit would need proper enforcement 24 hours a day, otherwise people will ignore it, as they do elsewhere. It may discourage those who regularly exceed 100mph or more though? Cats eyes don't really make any real difference if they are at the side or centre of the road to most, if any, accidents that happen on the mountain. Surely cats eyes are there, like white lines, for poor weather/low visibility conditions as well as at night as an aid to driving. Much like the spaces between dashed white lines get smaller on the approach and around a bend, the spacing and presence of cats eyes would give better indication of the most problematic bends when driving with dipped lights or fog lights. I often feel we assume too much. We assume that everyone 'knows' the mountain road even if they only drive on it once in a blue moon. It would be interesting to see some sort of breakdown by locations and % of contributing factors to all the recorded accidents in the last decade or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 8 hours ago, CallMeCurious said: Surely cats eyes are there, like white lines, for poor weather/low visibility conditions as well as at night as an aid to driving. Much like the spaces between dashed white lines get smaller on the approach and around a bend, the spacing and presence of cats eyes would give better indication of the most problematic bends when driving with dipped lights or fog lights. I often feel we assume too much. We assume that everyone 'knows' the mountain road even if they only drive on it once in a blue moon. It would be interesting to see some sort of breakdown by locations and % of contributing factors to all the recorded accidents in the last decade or so. driver error is the most common contributing factor. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Another one today caused a closure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 All these traffic accidents cannot be helping the hospital when it is struggling perhaps it is time car insurance had to cover any medical treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, hissingsid said: All these traffic accidents cannot be helping the hospital when it is struggling perhaps it is time car insurance had to cover any medical treatment. How would tat help the hospital - if any treatment is required where else can they go ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Apple said: How would tat help the hospital Hey, leave Skelly out of it! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, finlo said: Hey, leave Skelly out of it! Sorry. - typo. Should of course read -How would that help the hospital - if any treatment is required where else can they go ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Apple said: Sorry. - typo. Should of course read -How would that help the hospital - if any treatment is required where else can they go ? Jane Callows! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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