Derek Flint Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Faster than what they replaced you mean ? They were done to increase lap times at the TT, not for safety reasons. Same as the Veranda, Wild life park, Snugborough etc etc. The list is endless. They weren’t, but it is a consequence. Bith are beautifully engineered, Brandish especially. Just as well that is restricted during TT as you can achieve a fair tilt through it under response conditions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: They weren’t, but it is a consequence. Bith are beautifully engineered, Brandish especially. Just as well that is restricted during TT as you can achieve a fair tilt through it under response conditions! That you officer Crabtree? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: They weren’t, but it is a consequence. Bith are beautifully engineered, Brandish especially. Just as well that is restricted during TT as you can achieve a fair tilt through it under response conditions! Driven through Brandish in a Merc. van at 90 mph, just to prove why it was altered. Nothing else needs saying. Safety my f@@@@@@g arse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Driven through Brandish in a Merc. van at 90 mph, just to prove why it was altered. Nothing else needs saying. Safety my f@@@@@@g arse. Tut tut Dilli 30 over the limit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, finlo said: Tut tut Dilli 30 over the limit! There was no limit. and 90 felt quite sedate. The powers that be know how to up the lap times. Shame that the. TT is in such a hole that it needs to be artificially propped up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: They weren’t, but it is a consequence. Bith are beautifully engineered, Brandish especially. Just as well that is restricted during TT as you can achieve a fair tilt through it under response conditions! They were 100% engineered to increase lap times. If you cant see that you embarrass yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I can remember when Brandish was altered, the DOT/DOI reasoning in an official statement was, "That it didn't match any of the current criteria for a curve". I can remember thinking, "Probably nor do 95% of the rest of the corners on the IoM". 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: They weren’t, but it is a consequence. Bith are beautifully engineered, Brandish especially. Just as well that is restricted during TT as you can achieve a fair tilt through it under response conditions! Why do you think they were not cynically engineered to up the lap times ? You are not from these parts but seem to think yoU have an angle on what goes on behind closed doors. You are wrong . Edited August 19, 2020 by dilligaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, dilligaf said: Why do you think they were not cynically engineered to up the lap times ? You are not from these parts but seem to think yoU have an angle on what goes on behind closed doors . Er, I was behind the closed doors for 18 years, and involved in roads policing for a large part of that! We had significant issues with fatalities and serious injury collisions at both corners. Notwithstanding there was a much cheaper solution, the idea of reducing collisions by controlling speed was even more unpalatable then. consequentially, the decision was taken to re-engineer both corners. Both now have much higher critical speeds, which has an impact on cornering speeds - for normal road use and racing. Death and serious injury incidents on the public road and in the races has reduced significantly. But be in no doubt what drove the changes. Getting any changes on the TT course is as difficult as negotiating changes to the Mona Lisa. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Brandish was reprofiled over the winter of 2006 and was ready for the 2007 TT. That just happened to be the much publicised TT Centenary with recent-record attendance predicted and largely realised. The lap record had been inching towards 130mph in previous years. McGuinness then broke the 130 barrier that Centenary year. All a coincidence? You be the judge. ETA. There's not a single TT or MGP fatality recorded for Brandish, old or new. The nearest being the 1961 fatality of Swisswoman Marie Lambert at Gob-ny-Geay, the cutting on the approach from the Creg (GIYF). Although I do recall a 1995 TT incident when spectators including a young girl were hurt when a bike went out of control exiting the corner. So it could be argued that it certainly wasn't done on TT/MGP safety grounds. There was no requirement. Plus it increased speeds on the approach to Hillberry. Edited August 19, 2020 by Non-Believer Extra bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 They were totally engineered to increase TT lap times. Around the same time as they were modified the last slight left hander at Guthrie’s had the left side of the road widened and what used to be a ditch was tarmaced over to give bikes a wider entry to the following right hander. It serves no purpose other than for bike racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Derek Flint said: Word. The problem is that where on other routes they have reduced casualties by reduced by speed limits, attempts on the Mountainous Road have been through hugely expensive engineering (Brandish, Windy). It worked, but the same could have been achieved by posting design speed limits on each bit and enforcing them. Savings in today’s terms, probably a couple of million. What we actually have now is two bends which are much faster than what replaced them . we had to get to a 130mph lap record somehow. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: Er, I was behind the closed doors for 18 years, and involved in roads policing for a large part of that! We had significant issues with fatalities and serious injury collisions at both corners. Notwithstanding there was a much cheaper solution, the idea of reducing collisions by controlling speed was even more unpalatable then. consequentially, the decision was taken to re-engineer both corners. Both now have much higher critical speeds, which has an impact on cornering speeds - for normal road use and racing. Death and serious injury incidents on the public road and in the races has reduced significantly. But be in no doubt what drove the changes. Getting any changes on the TT course is as difficult as negotiating changes to the Mona Lisa. Absolute bollocks Derek. You think you know the score ? You did not even live here when things were decided. You are a clever bloke , but please don’t think the Manx are stupid. You have no idea what has gone on in the past to enhance the TT and the lap times. Take a step back and listen to us locals for a change. Edited August 19, 2020 by dilligaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 hours ago, dilligaf said: Absolute bollocks Derek. You think you know the score ? You did not even live here when things were decided. You are a clever bloke , but please don’t think the Manx are stupid. You have no idea what has gone on in the past to enhance the TT and the lap times. Take a step back and listen to us locals for a change. I was here when both discussions on the corners took place, and can assure you that for neither, ‘getting a better lap time’ was part of the business case for spending considerable amounts of taxpayers money. Carrying on with tripe as you sometimes publish ( which is incongruous as you do post a lot of sense) is bizarre in the extreme. Unless of course, the Manx TT mafia were just bullshitting the police, who were the primary lobbyists for the work to be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) There's no reason of course why the Police/Road Safety pressure couldn't have been used as additional justification for the modification of the corner? Without necessarily advising those Police/Road Safety lobbyists of the ulterior motive? As I've posted above, there are no race fatality grounds for the reprofiling of Brandish, either then or now? It's not hard to imagine - "Look, Centenary coming up, what a draw it would be if we could crack 130 during it and increase the speeds for years to come! We'll knock a hundred yards off Brandish and make it 60+mph faster, that should do the trick. But because we can't be seen to be overtly altering or shortening the TT course, DF & Co. have been wanting it made safer for road traffic for ages, we'll tell them that's why we're doing it"... Or is my imagination working overtime? ETA. I can see the reprofiling of Windy Corner having been done on the grounds of greater road safety, rather than TT "improvements" specifically. There were (and still are) any number of RTIs there. However there is only one race fatality listed for the corner, in 1948. Edited August 20, 2020 by Non-Believer Extra bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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