pongo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: There ought to be training about vehicle maintenance, assessment of road conditions and how they affect vehicle behaviour, and a compulsory number of hours driver training. With technology you can program in variable limits according to weather conditions. People shouldn't need to know how to maintain a car (unless it happens to be their "hobby"). It's a job for professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, pongo said: With technology you can program in variable limits according to weather conditions. People shouldn't need to know how to maintain a car (unless it happens to be their "hobby"). It's a job for professionals. Software that has to make nuanced decisions is well known for working well of course. I'm not suggesting people should be replacing their own brakes (again, as you're likely well aware). But if you can't ensure your tyre pressures are within spec, that your tyres have enough tread, that your oil, coolant and washer levels are appropriate and be aware of what would indicate a need to go to a garage, you shouldn't be driving. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: It's human nature to want to go faster. When you're a young lad particularly It's an easy trap to fall into. We've probably mostly all done it. Comparing it to sexual inadequacy seems slightly creepy as far as i can see. Ok pee wee 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Speaking of creepy 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, HeliX said: You don't think bitcoin gives you more privacy than a debit card? Mostly no. Anyhow - it's an asset class today. So comparing it with a pament method probably doesn't work. CBDCs will be different again - they will be designed around being payment methods. Every Bitcoin transaction is trackable forever. Even where people go to extremes to mix multiple transfers though it will take longer. The exchanges are required to divulge the sources of original funding via KYC legislation - so most transactions can also be traced back - ultimately to an original source of funding. Even if you perhaps originally mined it - most likely at some point one of your public keys (no doubt connectable back to some or ultimately all of your others) will have been used in some transaction which de-cloaked you. It really only takes one. The transparency of Bitcoin is part of what is so great about it. Criminals really aren't going to be able to feel safe using it. Edited October 18, 2020 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, pongo said: Mostly no. Anyhow - it's an asset class today. So comparing it with a pament method probably doesn;'t work. CBDCs will be different again. Every Bitcoin transaction is trackable forever. Even where people go to extremes to mix multiple transfers though it will take longer. The exchanges are required to divulge the sources of original funding via KYC legislation - so most transactions can also be traced back to an original source of funding. Even if you perhaps originally mined it - most likely at some point one of your public keys (no doubt connectable back to some or ultimately all of your others) will have been used in some transaction which de-cloaked you. It really only takes one. The transparency of Bitcoin is part of what is so great about it. Criminals really aren't going to be able to feel safe using it. You can trace a particular transaction all the way back to the person who originally put the "real" money into an Exchange all you want, good luck proving beyond reasonable doubt that it's the same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: You can trace a particular transaction all the way back to the person who originally put the "real" money into an Exchange all you want, good luck proving beyond reasonable doubt that it's the same person. https://www.chainalysis.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, pongo said: https://www.chainalysis.com/ 1. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to mine, I buy drugs with it. 2. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to another of your bitcoin wallets, you buy drugs with it. Spot the difference in the transaction logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: I must say I'm not really comfortable with the cops 'ran out of talent' angle. It's a bit stupid really. I see they've ran out of talent and deleted their tweet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, HeliX said: 1. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to mine, I buy drugs with it. 2. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to another of your bitcoin wallets, you buy drugs with it. Spot the difference in the transaction logs. Think about how conventional AML legislation works. It would be useless if you could realistically disown money back beyond a couple of transfers. Also realistically, you are not going to KYC with multiple exchanges. Your argument might work if you once only bought a bit of weed. But if it's something you like to do from time to time then you are going to start creating patterns. And realistically you are not going to get yourself KYCed with an infinite number of exchanges. Because there aren't that many. Also, one of these days, you get careless and use one of those public wallet addresses again for something else. Not that I think anyone much cares enough about you buying a bit of weed. Also: transaction logs ... lol! Edited October 18, 2020 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, pongo said: Think about how conventional AML legislation works. It would be useless if you could realistically disown money back beyond a couple of transfers. Also realistically, you are not going to KYC with multiple exchanges. Your argument might work if you once only bought a bit of weed. But if it's something you like to do from time to time then you are going to start creating patterns. And realistically you are not going to get yourself KYCed with an infinite number of exchanges. Because there aren't that many. Also, one of these days, you get careless and use one of those public wallet addresses again for something else. Not that I think anyone much cares enough about you buying a bit of weed. Also: transaction logs ... lol! You can link anyone who's ever added money via an exchange to all manner of illicit activity if you're willing to chain long enough. It's not viable. Like I said, it's reasonable doubt. Which is all that's required. Unless you're on the jury, apparently. To get back to the point, any scenario where huge amounts of data (times, locations, activities) of citizens who are under no suspicion whatsoever is being logged ought to be resisted. Including car black boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, HeliX said: 1. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to mine, I buy drugs with it. 2. You put money into an exchange, send money from your bitcoin wallet to another of your bitcoin wallets, you buy drugs with it. Spot the difference in the transaction logs. People are VERY welcome to put some bitcoins in my wallet and I'll buy some drugs with them. Want the address? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, pongo said: Also: transaction logs ... lol! I'm a developer. Anything that contains history is logs to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, TheTeapot said: People are VERY welcome to put some bitcoins in my wallet and I'll buy some drugs with them. Want the address? I would've done, but now there's the threat that pongo will hold me legally culpable for your purchases I'm not going to. Cheers pongo. Fun sponge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, HeliX said: There's always a choice. Even if it involves not buying a car made after 2022. More involved lessons and harder tests are still the answer in my view. It would also reduce ALL causes of accident. Agree, but that is a 20year project. We need to deal with the low hanging fruit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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