Mountain Watch

[HeliX]

5 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You can’t put a price on it. 
A friend of mine killed a cyclist. He was blinded by the sun. Most of us thought “there but for the grace of god...”. The guy was still dead though, despite the lack of intent, or even misadventure, on the part of my mate. 
Should a sentence for killing someone on the road be proportionate to the degree of idiocy of the errant driver? My friend at the one end, with a 1 year ban (I think) up to 14 years for a grand theft auto style 160mph rampage with multiple fatalities?

I don’t know what the answer is. 4.5 years for this guy seems reasonable. Longer won’t bring back the little girl, and whatever the sentence he’s still got to live with the guilt and his life is basically ruined. 

I agree with this. There is, of course, a wider question about the purpose of sentencing in here. Is it for retribution? Rehabilitation? Deterrent? "Justice"?

It's difficult. But as you say, no length of sentence is going to undo what was done. And I don't think society is any safer for having him locked up for longer than 4.5 years. There clearly needs to be consequence, but being heavy handed just ruins more lives than already are.

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You can’t put a price on it. 
A friend of mine killed a cyclist. He was blinded by the sun. Most of us thought “there but for the grace of god...”. The guy was still dead though, despite the lack of intent, or even misadventure, on the part of my mate. 
Should a sentence for killing someone on the road be proportionate to the degree of idiocy of the errant driver? My friend at the one end, with a 1 year ban (I think) up to 14 years for a grand theft auto style 160mph rampage with multiple fatalities?

I don’t know what the answer is. 4.5 years for this guy seems reasonable. Longer won’t bring back the little girl, and whatever the sentence he’s still got to live with the guilt and his life is basically ruined. 

And that’s why we have the offence of Causing Death by Dangerous/Reckless/Careless driving. 
 

Up until the 1960’s in the IOM ( a decade earlier in UK ) it was manslaughter. Automatic jury trial and maximum life sentence. Many juries did the same “ there but the grace of god” calculation in their deliberations. It became almost impossible to secure a conviction.

[John Wright]

33 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The max penalty is 14 years. But it is never, ever seen. 

You, like me, will have sat with a family after you’ve tried to do everything you can to save them after catastrophic high speed injuries from a collision, which was likely wholly and completely avoidable.

How do you begin to put a price on that?

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/

I reckon it’s bang on guideline Derek. That’s not to say that the guide lines are correct.

[wrighty]

19 minutes ago, John Wright said:

And that’s why we have the offence of Causing Death by Dangerous/Reckless/Careless driving. 
 

Up until the 1960’s in the IOM ( a decade earlier in UK ) it was manslaughter. Automatic jury trial and maximum life sentence. Many juries did the same “ there but the grace of god” calculation in their deliberations. It became almost impossible to secure a conviction.

At the time of my mate’s incident there wasn’t a ‘causing death by careless driving’ offence. It was either ‘death by dangerous’ or simply ‘careless’. He pleaded guilty to the latter. 

[Apple]

2 hours ago, HeliX said:

Tragic, but a bit of a strange link to post in a thread about potentially applying an island speed limit to the Isle of Man. The crash occurred in a 60mph zone.

My apologies if this was somehow not an appropriate post. We had been discussion the general impact of speeding but I thought not necessarily just on the island.

[HeliX]

8 minutes ago, Apple said:

My apologies if this was somehow not an appropriate post. We had been discussion the general impact of speeding but I thought not necessarily just on the island.

I'm not the arbiter of appropriateness, no apologies needed to me! 

[Kopek]

Is this a case that we are a car dependent society and that we have  to accept that there will be some consequences from this?

Each tragic accident is precisely that but the vast majority of us are unaffected and so, do not demand changes?

Better education, especially at school, is the obvious answer but ten years from now could a Google app. restrict a cars speed on every bit of road dependant on experience, the type of car, the road conditions ?

[HeliX]

39 minutes ago, Kopek said:

ten years from now could a Google app. restrict a cars speed on every bit of road dependant on experience, the type of car, the road conditions ?

Could do it now. I don't think it'd be a good thing though.

[Kopek]

Not a good thing but,,,,,,  something that the public might respond to positively............

.............. unti they realise that it refers to them?

[Non-Believer]

9 hours ago, Kopek said:

is the obvious answer but ten years from now could a Google app. restrict a cars speed on every bit of road dependant on experience, the type of car, the road conditions ?

Pity it wasn't available on Saturday night for the bell-end who came through Ballaugh village westbound at a reported 70mph plus, failed to negotiate the bridge and demolished the wall and railings on the right-hand side of the bridge with the car ending up in the river beneath facing back towards Ramsey. Pop through and have a look if you're down that way.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Non-Believer
Typo

[TheTeapot]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Pity it wasn't available on Saturday night for the bell-end who came through Ballaugh village westbound at a reported 70mph plus, failed to negotiate the bridge and demolished the wall and railings on the right-hand side of the bridge with the car ending up in the river beneath facing back towards Ramsey. Pop through and have a look if you're down that way.

[piebaps]

He was in the paper yesterday. Disqualified driver and no insurance. 30mph speed limit though so he was safe. Speed limits save lives apparently.

[Derek Flint]

11 minutes ago, piebaps said:

He was in the paper yesterday. Disqualified driver and no insurance. 30mph speed limit though so he was safe. Speed limits save lives apparently.

People still speed, even where there is wide governance. But the majority will take the advice that the limit provides and conform. That makes for a safer world, rather than relying on everyone to make it up as they go along,  as this clown clearly was.

[Non-Believer]

Silver Golf over the edge and in the field at Brandywell now.....

[Barlow]

20 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

The max penalty is 14 years. But it is never, ever seen. 

 

I'd say 13.5 years plus 4 years or more, for chucking away the evidence from his dashcam