Slim Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I was a lot more open minded than that. Not only do I have children who are agnostic (atheism is just another belief system IMO), I have children who can take part in an intelligent debate on most subjects. I don't think that's being open minded at all, particularly dismissing atheism as just a belief system. Atheists simply don't have a belief in any gods, they don't believe in atheism. I'm quite happy to be an agnostic and an atheist. I don't believe in any god But if proof shows up I can accept that truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credente Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no God. As this cannot be proven - it is a belief. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - and every bit as ridiculous as all the others IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideload Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Atheism is a belief system like abstinence is a sex position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no God. As this cannot be proven - it is a belief. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - and every bit as ridiculous as all the others IMO. Children are born atheists, would you still call that a belief? Atheism, agnostic, non religious, same thing for me no matter how people want to cloud it up with their own interpretations or splitting hairs about how you can't prove something isn't there, only that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no God. As this cannot be proven - it is a belief. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - and every bit as ridiculous as all the others IMO. Children are born atheists, would you still call that a belief? Atheism, agnostic, non religious, same thing for me no matter how people want to cloud it up with their own interpretations or splitting hairs about how you can't prove something isn't there, only that it is. Well exactly, you can't prove something doesn't exist, therefore atheism is nonsense. Atheists DENY the existence of a god. They don't doubt it. They are as sure about their belief as the most pious believer in whatever god. I am not at all sure that children are born atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 their RE teacher at Balla ever emphasised that the whole religion thing may also be a human invention and a complete nonsense. I am not sure the RE teacher knew their stuff. Religion is certainly man made but it is not a complete nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I am not sure the RE teacher knew their stuff. Religion is certainly man made but it is not a complete nonsense. Religion is that which differs us from animal; animals are far too intelligent to get involved with such a load of old cobblers. BTW - anyone from KWC remember the blind RE teacher who lost his sight in bomb disposal during WWII - what was his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [Religion is that which differs us from animal; animals are far too intelligent to get involved with such a load of old cobblers. Seems you don't know your stuff either! Ignorance is a terrible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 We Shouldn't even need the word "atheism".If people didn't invent ridiculous imaginary Gods, rational people wouldn't have to deny them. https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/rickygervais/status/175932824518533121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [Religion is that which differs us from animal; animals are far too intelligent to get involved with such a load of old cobblers. Seems you don't know your stuff either! Ignorance is a terrible thing. Praying Mantis don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no God. As this cannot be proven - it is a belief. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - and every bit as ridiculous as all the others IMO. I do find the arguments about the definition of atheism a waste of time. I know of no atheist who would claim they are absolutely certain that there is no God (of any type). I think it is obvious such a belief is vastly over confident given the huge uncertainty in knowledge and definition of the term God. Is a lack of belief a belief? Does a non-stamp collector collect things? For me the words agnostic and atheist are words to to describe absence in an environment where belief in Gods is predominantly present. A bit like a hole in a p-type semiconductor. The hole in the p-type semiconductor is only noteworthy because it is rare with electrons dominating. For me the landscape of belief is one filled with people claiming they know their particular religion provides a mass of details aboutGod, the supernatural, the judgement of the dead, heaven, hell etc. With another group of people saying they find these claims vastly extragant - atheists/agnostics simply aren't convinced by any of these arguments so do not follow them. Most admit that it is theoretically possible they could believe in some future religious claims in the future - ones based on evidence etc rather than claims of authority and revelation - but currently they don't. I don't find that approach ridiculous at all. Especially compared to the stories about demons, evil spirits, eternal bliss or torture religions come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibaba Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Children are born atheists, would you still call that a belief? Aren't they actually born sinners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Well exactly, you can't prove something doesn't exist, therefore atheism is nonsense. Atheists DENY the existence of a god. They don't doubt it. They are as sure about their belief as the most pious believer in whatever god. I am not at all sure that children are born atheists. Atheism is the absence of belief. That's not a belief, it's the opposite of it. Like I said, if you want to argue the definition I'm happy to make it clearer by calling myself a non-believing agnostic atheist if that helps? I think faeries exist either, and the overwhelming lack of evidence of their existence backs up that, but I can't prove it absolutely. That also isn't a belief system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 What you are arguing here boils down to whether an opinion is a belief. This is a popular philosphical question (Googled English language only dictionary definitions are not deep enough to cover the subtleties.) Not believing in something is an opinion and therefore a belief - unless you can argue that an opinion is not a belief. There are no gods. Unless as Chinahand hints you change the definition of what god means. If you change the definition of what something means then anything can be anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Leaving aside the narrow definition of atheism, we just don't know enough to have an opinion really. If you want to believe then all you can really have is "faith". Considering that we understand very little about anything in nature, even the nature of our own existence and consciousness, how can we so confidently assert that there is or is not a god? It strikes me as just another of man's conceits about his own importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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