What did you do in the war, Donny?

[Darth Vader]

Most of us in here are part of a generation where the "draft", conscription, national service, or whatever you may wish to call it has been abolished.

 

This is mainly due to our fathers and grandfathers fighting in two world wars so that we could live freely to the extent we are free to criticise each other in here.

 

Someone made reference to the Falkland Islands war and Iraq.

 

We could debate for ever the circumstances around them but for the record......

 

Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands which is British territory inhabited by British people. Mrs Thatcher, the Prime Minister at that time rightfully assembled a task force and Britain reclaimed what had been taken by force. A rightful action.

 

Iraq invaded Kuwait illegally and Britain took part under UN conventions along with arab states and the USA, to kick the Iraqis out of Kuwait. Another rightful action.

 

Following the Iraqi defeat, the lunatic Saddam turned against his own people and muslims not practising his own brand of this tribal religion. He systematically exterminated hundreds of thousands of Kurds in his own country and drained the marshes inhabited by the marsh arabs. Britain and the USA spent millions as a result, enforcing a no fly zone to contain Saddam from his quest of genicide. But the lunatic then started exterminating his own tribe.

 

Irrespective of the arguement about WMD this was a country whose people needed liberating from a total tyrant. Britain then assisted the USA in a coalition of nations to invade Iraq and force regime change. The majority of Iraqis are grateful they now can enjoy democracy and freedom even though there is still the problem with terrorist insurgents.

 

Britain in my view has behaved well in this world and our armed forces today should be proud of their commitment in serving the country which has helped neighboring countries in trouble.

 

The attitude.."it is not my war" and "I will not fight an english war" is disappointing.

 

It is selfish, unpatriatic, and can only be borne from people who have little knowledge of efforts of conscripts or volunteers in the military who have risked their lives in warfare so people have that same freedom to be selfish and not be controlled by lunatics like Hitler or Saddam.

[StuartT]

can't blame him for that....

 

I wouldn't want to go and fight for an English war now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What a load of sh1te. If you are mistakenly refering to the 2nd WW, it most certainly was not an "English War". And you will find throughout the history of the British Isles, the Manx, Scots and Irish in particular have made a very large contribution to the military strength of the British Isles. The senior regiment of foot in the British Army is also Scottish - The Royal Scots (now under threat from Bambi Blair the sh1t who typically betrays those he has sent to do his dirty work).

 

 

Seem to remember hearing that Dominic Delaney was a Para, and had seen some action as well.

[simon]

Donald Gelling is a clever man, when he was called up to do his national service he applied for an overseas posting, and at that time the only place that was an overseas posting was the Camp Jurby, Isle of Man and thats were Donald done his time.

 

When was that? Was it before, or after, the war ended? My guess would be that it was after the war ended.

 

I think that the (before or after) date would probably take a considerable sting out of this thread.

 

If it was after the war had ended (wasn't it?), then not a huge moral issue.

 

If it was after the war ... well frankly the urgency had gone. Hitler was dead and Japan was defeated. People were feeling much more free to secure the best possible postings. So it wouldn't have been a huge moral issue. Perhaps just a small town boy not wanting (or daring) to go too far from home.

 

I wonder why you've posted this. Anyway. Is it having a go a Donald Gelling? Is it trying to stir. After the war everybody applied for the postings they wanted, where they had the opportunity. And perhaps Mr Gelling had a family to look after.

 

More light and less heat, Crumlin.

 

EDIT: I'm not convinced, either, that this option of 'overseas posting' ever existed during the war. I'm not convinced that the first post in this thread is accurate in that respect. Given that the thread was entitled "... in the war".

[Upstream]

WW1 and WW2. Aye, ok. All the rest of the named conflicts, most significantly 'The Falklands', although extremely traumatic to those involved, can never be compared.

 

So, back to WW1 and WW2 - and I'm being generalistic here but I hope you get the point - the cream of our nation was wiped out. Those that gave up their youth, bravery and ultimately their lives. Slaughtered.

 

What and who was left to run our nation?

 

 

I'll give you a clue.

 

They could be described, quite euphemistically of course, as Men who sit down to pee

 

That's what you've got. They are the result of the massive World conflict. The Leaders of the Western Human Race.

 

 

 

 

ps

 

and IoM could be described as a microcosm of this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edited for some bold emphasis

[sarahc]

They could be described, quite euphemistically of course, as Men who sit down to pee

 

Women?

[StuartT]

So, back to WW1 and WW2 - and I'm being generalistic here but I hope you get the point -  the cream of our nation was wiped out. Those that gave up their youth, bravery and ultimately their lives. Slaughtered.

 

What and who was left to run our nation?

 

 

I'll give you a clue.

 

They could be described, quite euphemistically of course, as Men who sit down to pee

 

ps

 

and IoM could be described as a microcosm of this.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

This comment is an insult to those who fought and survived while watching their mates die.

 

 

Men like my Maternal Great Grandfather who fought with the 15th Ack Ack in Crete and inflicted such heavy casualties on Hitlers Airborne forces that Hitler would never again commit them to a full on air assault, and who took an round from an aircraft through his chest which went on to take the head off the man stood behind him, but survived (thanks to a German Dr).

 

Or like my Paternal Grandfather who saw hard fighting in Hong Kong, had to kill a man with his bare hands at one point, and out of his section of 24, was one of only 7 men and one officer left alive and who time and time again retook ground (with the bayonet in some cases) only to be pressed back by weight of numbers and lack of ammunition. He did not surrender until ordered to do so for the good of the civilian population.

 

After this he was left to die battoned down in the holds of the sinking Lisbon Maru (google it), until he managed to break out, helping other men get free, and keeping himself and his mate with 2 broken legs afloat for 12 hours in the sea, until being picked up. He then spent the rest of the war in a Japanese POW camp

 

At a regimental gathering a few years back one of his old comrades said to my Dad "Those of us who were at the hardest bits of the fighting never talk about it"....."Like your Dad, he never talks about it........".

 

They both survived. But you're saying that because they did so, they're the scum, the worthless ones, who saved their own hides. When infact you may not even be fit to lick the soles of their boots. They were lucky (in an unlucky way) that's true. But they were not cowards and shirkers because they survived.

 

 

Oh and BTW my Great Uncle (My Paternal Grandfathers brother) was at the Bloody Hook in Korea. He would have been able to tell you how 'insignificant' that conflict was.

[Upstream]

As I quite clearly stated

 

- and I'm being generalistic here but I hope you get the point  -

 

try seeing the bigger picture.

 

No, I am not talking about women sarahc.

 

I first heard the phrase from a well respected Manxman many years ago. There are men and there are men.

 

Please think about what I have written. And if Stuart can 'take his head out of his own arse' (so to speak - see another now ongoing thread) he might see what I mean.

[sarahc]

Upstream you're going to have to explain, I don't get it.

[Mission]

Ahh, so you're only a real man if you have a big cock then yes?

 

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims, you know, big dicked blokes being braver than small dicked blokes?

[Declan]

Can't small dicked men stand and pee?

[monkey_magic]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What a load of crap.

 

Approx 500,000 Brits were killed in WW2. Granted, that's a hell of a lot, but it hardly wiped out all of the leaders.

 

You can't take anything away from those who died - they made the ulitmate sacrifice. But that doesn't mean those that weren't killed were lesser people.

[Upstream]

With your history heads on if you will, please.

 

Lets imagine, say, a family. . . .no, lets say a group of close friends . . . . or neighbours perhaps,

a village...a town . . . a city . . . a county. Let’s say a Country.

 

. . . . . A Nation.

 

It has a conflict and goes to war. Not very pleasant I know, but sorry, these things do happen they’ve been happening for aeons. (There’s lots of fact in history and the last fifty years is but a snippet, if you can somehow manage to appreciate that just now).

 

So who goes to fight – and I mean ‘fight’ in the most basic sense of the word?

 

In the battle there is lot’s of clashing and banging and fighting and screaming etc etc. And many ‘warriors’ die. On both sides.

 

The NET RESULT is that the overall power of that people is lessened (be it village a hundreds of years ago or a Nation 60 years ago). We are, in the simplistic terms of my argument, left with the sickly and war dodgers. (sorry if I offend anyone here but in the limited space of a furious Friday night forum there is little benefit of writing an epic post in which to cover all angles and be wholly diplomatic)

 

As that well respected Isle of Man bank Manager from years ago explained to me “men who sit down to pee”.

 

Again, sorry if I offend, but I am serious in my point.

[monkey_magic]

With your history heads on if you will, please

 

Erm, history deals with factual information.

 

You're using a hypothesis, and trying to make it fit. It doesn't.

[Upstream]

There’s lots of fact in history

 

maybe I was trying to be too ironic when I stated that.

 

Hypothesis? Possibly. Maybe.

 

To me it is all too clear though.

 

 

You see, it is circumstance that has made me see this way. Perhaps if i was born sicty years earlier I would have seen seen my school pals and brothers killed in the trenches or something. It would be clearer and make more sense then.

 

But I just saw mates of a couple of years burnt and blown up. They 'willingly took the Kings shilling' as my leftie student pals later told me.

 

Ah well.

[simon]

With your history heads on if you will, please.

 

Lets imagine, say, a family. . . .no, lets say a group of close friends . . . . or neighbours perhaps,

a village...a town . . . a city . . . a county. Let’s say a Country.

 

. . . . . A Nation.

 

It has a conflict and goes to war. Not very pleasant I know, but sorry, these things do happen they’ve been happening for aeons. (There’s lots of fact in history and the last fifty years is but a snippet, if you can somehow manage to appreciate that just now).

 

So who goes to fight – and I mean ‘fight’ in the most basic sense of the word?

 

In the battle there is lot’s of clashing and banging and fighting and screaming etc etc. And many ‘warriors’ die. On both sides.

 

The NET RESULT (capitals for fuchekwits like Stuart) is that the overall power of that people is lessened (be it village a hundreds of years ago or a Nation 60 years ago). We are, in the simplistic terms of my argument, left with the sickly and war dodgers. (sorry if I offend anyone here but in the limited space of a furious Friday night forum there is little benefit of writing an epic post in which to cover all angles and be wholly diplomatic)

 

As that well respected Isle of Man bank Manager from years ago explained to me “men who sit down to pee”.

 

Again, sorry if I offend, but I am serious in my point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Even accepting the simplistic and silly terms you represent: another way of looking at this is to say that we are are left with the victors and lucky survivors.

 

And when you look at the past 50 years. We were significantly represented by people who had actually distinguished themselves, or certainly done their bit, during ww2.

 

EDIT: WW2 was a total (all or nothing) war. I doubt that even Rhumsaa would really argue that anyone had any choice but than to be involved as best they could.