Albert Tatlock Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 In Armstrong's own words: "I hope you have become comfortable with the use of logic, without being deceived into concluding that logic will inevitably lead to the correct conclusion." Though logic usually got Spock and the Enterprise out of the crapper. 'Facts' are what you observe yourself, the rest of what you know is simply what other people told you by other means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 An interview with Neil Armstrong, "proudly brought to you by CPA Australia" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I have no doubt about the moon landings - I will not allow the grubby little conspiricists who search so feverishly for feet of clay to influence my view of a man whose shadow they're not even fit to stand in. Ever thought it strange that the same consiracy theorists who claim that the moon landings were faked (space travel is impossible, too much radiation etc.) are the same ones that accuse the US government of covering up an alien space craft crashing at Roswell? I don't think that's the case at all. I have read numerous cases/interviews/experts on both of the above occurrences and most are mutually exclusive with completely separate views and rationale on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. The Russians have never landed on the moon - not least and survived (if you believe some stories). They know as much as the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Aside from all the monitoring equipment, and being able to track it themselves, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. Haha...WHAT??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. Haha...WHAT??!! What a convincing counter point. I feel I must go cleanse my aura with lavender and acupuncture immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. Haha...WHAT??!! What a convincing counter point. I feel I must go cleanse my aura with lavender and acupuncture immediately. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 What frustrates me about these sorts of conspiracies is that someone like Albert goes I don't know all the Albert your post seems to contradict itself. It implies that you know a reasonable amount about the Cold War, yet still believe that the USA could have faked the moon landing, and that Russia has just accepted it? If it had been faked, Russia would have been (and would still be) absolutely batshit about it. The Russians have never landed on the moon - not least and survived (if you believe some stories). They know as much as the rest of us. But Albert you don't know thousands of things about the moon landing, but even in that ignorance you think you can give a probability that it didn't happen. Did you know, for example, that Jodrell Bank tried to track the descent, had trouble calibrating their equipment, then when they were tuned in saw the smooth descent and then noted when Armstrong took manual control causing a change in the descent profile? I am sure there will be thousands of similar examples from ground stations the world over which I know nothing about - but I do know any astronomer, or scientist, who had equipment which might pick this up was going to have a go doing it. Do people really think that these thousands of people would have kept quiet if they didn't pick up signals. Australians, South Africans, French, Germans, Chinese etc etc who had the equipment to observe the landing and listen into Apollo's communications even if they couldn't de-cypher* them. Do people really think a group of astrophysics from UMIST were part of a global conspiracy to lie and fake this recording? It amazes me that people can have such amazing priors to give this theory any consideration at all. The assumptions you have to have to make it coherent mean you have to ignore literally thousands of pieces of data, and assume the Russians, the Chinese, the French, etc etc ignored their data and took what NASA was doing at face value. It is just silly! *Actually they weren't encrypted - here's Jodrell Bank recording the NASA signals AND signals from Luna 15 the Russian lander which crashed onto the Moon at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Chinahand, its no use arguing with people who will only accept evidence of a moon landing when someone returns with one of the Clangers. The Clangers don't live on the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Chinahand, its no use arguing with people who will only accept evidence of a moon landing when someone returns with one of the Clangers. So critical thinking is a no-no nowadays then?? I can neither prove nor disprove the fact we ever went there so the jury is still out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Oh come on Lxxx that is one huge cop out. Do you deny the existence of Rio de Janeiro, or some other place you have not been to, but for which if you take the evidence provided by others there is more than enough reason to accept its reality. I agree with Lonan3 it probably isn't worth arguing about this, but I remain fascinated by your rationale. What do you think about the trace from Jodrell Bank - is it significantly different from, say, the trace for the Higgs Boson? Do you accept that the Higgs Boson is a product of scientists working together in a grand collaboration - if so, why would you have a different view of the data from the scientists at UMIST tracking Apollo 11? Do you really think that Jodrell Bank trace is faked? Really? What makes you unwilling to take it on face value? What about the recordings of the scientists discussing both Apollo 11 and Luna 15 - is one half of the conversation true, and the other half fake? For me I can't understand a rationale which tries to build a scenario that these people are a part of a grand conspiracy - it would be little different than claiming Rio doesn't exist. In both cases I have to rely on third parties as I've no direct evidence myself, but to assume this is a lie strains reason. Please do reply - even if it is to only say what you think the trace from Jodrell Bank and the recordings they made discussing the live data they were recieving from Apollo 11 and Luna 15 back in July 1969 are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Please do reply - even if it is to only say what you think the trace from Jodrell Bank and the recordings they made discussing the live data they were recieving from Apollo 11 and Luna 15 back in July 1969 are. Please don't. Instead, why not create a Moon Hoax Conspiracy thread where the discussion can be treated with the disdain it deserves. Let's reserve this one for the "heroes, who learned to countdown to zero". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 China - I think Lxxx must be a fan of Ernst Mach and his positivist school. I bet he doesn't believe in atoms either and won't until he's seen one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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