La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I spoke to a Muslim about this subject, his stance was that no person is allowed to mock the Prophet Muhammed and it is every Muslims duty to be outraged. I can understand why they are outraged. The issue of duty doesn't even have to come into it. If they really do believe in the garbage in the Koran and holiness of Muhammed then outrage seems natural. But something needs to be done about that outrage is another thing. LDV,the quote you're responding to was written by Max Power,why have you presented it as mine? Looks like I have. Not sure how I did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I reckon it's all a backlash to the gunboat deplomacy of old. Old woulds take a long time to heal, and fairly recent actions of Bush and his gang done more to open them than try to heal them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I actually think it doesn't have a great deal to do with imperialism and more to do with the righteousness surrounding religious belief. I think the reaction TOWARDS symbols and government officials of the United States (and France - with the recent cartoons) is partly about the perceptions of the west being an enemy rather than focusing on individuals who do these things, but the violence and degree of outrage is almost wholly down to belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I actually think it doesn't have a great deal to do with imperialism and more to do with the righteousness surrounding religious belief. I think the reaction TOWARDS symbols and government officials of the United States (and France - with the recent cartoons) is partly about the perceptions of the west being an enemy rather than focusing on individuals who do these things, but the violence and degree of outrage is almost wholly down to belief. I actually agree with an LDV post - I think I'd better go an have a lie down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Bangladesh rampage over Facebook Koran image They're at it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Worrying if it moves to the Indian SubContinent. A mob there seems to be like unstoppable landlides of stupidity. I mean, what sort of morons would see (and for the most part of the mob, hear about such a thing) and then go out and do this sort of thing. I would hope in their stupidity that they set fire to themselves whilst burning other things and rid the world of their stupidity but it just goes on and it is a bit unfair to be so nasty about bad education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Worrying if it moves to the Indian SubContinent. A mob there seems to be like unstoppable landlides of stupidity. I mean, what sort of morons would see (and for the most part of the mob, hear about such a thing) and then go out and do this sort of thing. I would hope in their stupidity that they set fire to themselves whilst burning other things and rid the world of their stupidity but it just goes on and it is a bit unfair to be so nasty about bad education. From what I have read, there was a lot of looting going on before the destruction started. I think the "outrage" at a film was mearly a cover for large scale theft. Kinda like the riots in the UK not so long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 It may be easier to have a worldwide policy to abuse Muhammed at every opportunity. Then Muslims can become desensitised to it and learn to live with it. You'd find that nobody would be bothered then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well you had Draw Muhammad Day which is still ongoing. At least that if you get really bored, you can always burn a koran in your backyard, post it on an Indonesian, Indian, or Middle Eastern website and watch hell broke loose and then sit back and cackle at the maybe you've caused. Or crank it add with burn FIVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 ... post it on an Indonesian, Indian, or Middle Eastern website and watch hell broke loose and then sit back and cackle at the maybe you've caused. Or crank it add with burn FIVE! As ever your typos cloud meaning, but I assume you are alluding to sitting back and cackling at the mayhem caused by uploading something offensive. Yeah, I'm sure the communities attacked and looted and burned must think it is just great that you are sitting back and enjoying the mayhem. Its a difficult one - the people over-reacting should be condemned, but what responsibility does someone who goes out to provoke have? Especially when the events are thousands of miles separated. Someone posts a video to provoke Muslims and as a result a Christian community in say Indonesia is massacred. That isn't something to cackle about. Your use of language here is very disturbing, LDV. It sees enjoyment in the extreme reaction. I'm sure you'll say your just being juvenile on the internet and it is of no consequence, but the events we are talking about are the very serious consequences of such behaviour - people are being attacked and are dying. The best result of posting something up is people shrugging their shoulders at other people's rudeness and getting on with their lives, not mayhem. It maybe true that blasphemy doesn't excuse violence, that the violence may be due to different underlying tensions, that it may have flared up for a different reason anyway, but the trouble is people have gone out to provoke, basically knowing those looking for trouble will use this to stir up trouble and people are dying as a result. What is needed is intercommunity communication and tolerance for alternative views - I'm not sure how burning 5 Korans helps that - people could die as a result. That's definitely not something to sit back and cackle about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 As ever your typos cloud meaning, but I assume you are alluding to sitting back and cackling at the mayhem caused by uploading something offensive. Yeah, I'm sure the communities attacked and looted and burned must think it is just great that you are sitting back and enjoying the mayhem. I wasn't serious. I would have hoped that was clear.Its a difficult one - the people over-reacting should be condemned, but what responsibility does someone who goes out to provoke have? Especially when the events are thousands of miles separated. Someone posts a video to provoke Muslims and as a result a Christian community in say Indonesia is massacred. That isn't something to cackle about.Unless you're a witch.Your use of language here is very disturbing, LDV.Don't be disturbedIt sees enjoyment in the extreme reaction. Not enioyment. The whole thing angers me a lot actually. The only enjoyment I would get is were the violent loonies to come a cropper while being violent against others. The stupidity attending their decision to partake and being the worse for it would be the only humorous thing, but you never hear about these things. m sure you'll say your just being juvenile on the internet I am being juvenile at this point. I have already made my dislike of this clear, I have condemned it and vented my anger. The juvenile comments are probably the result of looking at the juvenile behaviour going on.It maybe true that blasphemy doesn't excuse violence, that the violence may be due to different underlying tensions, that it may have flared up for a different reason anyway, It seems to form a pattern across regions where there are many Hindus and Muslims.What is needed is intercommunity communication and tolerance for alternative views - I'm not sure how burning 5 Korans helps that - people could die as a result.Depends what you mean by tolerance. Although now you mention five korans, if you even said anything midly critical of Islam in public you'd see the death threats coming in. The current pattern is that any negative said about Islam in public comes with threats to silence people. I have tolerance for people having their views and expressing them. They don't. I don't tolerate their behaviour, however. And if people would go to such lengths when their beliefs come in for criticism, then I would not put an ounce of negative blame on the provoker. Yes, he is responsible for upsetting people knowing it would anger. But I think Islam deserves to be criticised if this is how it manifests and protects itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It seems to form a pattern across regions where there are many Hindus and Muslims. Its more complex than just these two religions. Don't ignore Christian Pogroms against Jews, centuries of Christian conflict both between its various sects and with Islam - not just the crusades, but the endless conflict in Eastern Europe. Whether it is the selling of indulgences, one ethnic group being in favour of usury, or belittling one particular manifestation of an invisible friend religious arguments often end in violence. Partly because they cannot be solved via reason and evidence and only by violence to shut the other view up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 As an aside cultural differences DO play a major part. The UK is an excellent example. It is part of our culture to take the piss out of religion. I'm proud to say we are totally indiscriminate about this and view ALL religions as fair game. And why not? This is our country and this is it's culture. Now if some zealot far far away decides this is a good enough reason to apply lethal force against those of a different religion just down the road then I simply have no time or mercy for them and the choices they have made. For those here it's a simple choice - if you don't like it then fine, accept our culture or leave. The tail really is wagging the dog though. The Muslim population of the UK is less than 5% which makes them a very small minority. That so much air-time is given to their religious views shows not only how vociferous a minority they are but also what a fair-minded majority the rest are. Think the Muslims would behave similarly were the positions to be reversed? Me neither.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It seems to form a pattern across regions where there are many Hindus and Muslims. Its more complex than just these two religions. Don't ignore Christian Pogroms against Jews, centuries of Christian conflict both between its various sects and with Islam - not just the crusades, but the endless conflict in Eastern Europe. Whether it is the selling of indulgences, one ethnic group being in favour of usury, or belittling one particular manifestation of an invisible friend religious arguments often end in violence. Partly because they cannot be solved via reason and evidence and only by violence to shut the other view up! I am not talking about violence in general, but the modern case of people still thinking it is acceptable to be violent because their beliefs are attacked. It should never be condoned. The Pogroms, were they to occur today, would be included in my examples if they continued. But they don't continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx1Bloke Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 ARTHUR: This is the Messiah, the Chosen One! SIMON: No, he's not. BRIAN: Aaaagh! ARTHUR: An unbeliever! FOLLOWERS: An unbeliever! ARTHUR: Persecute! Kill the heretic! FOLLOWERS: Kill the heretic! Kill him! Persecute! Kill!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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