Sad Day For Manchester

[ballaughbiker]

I wonder because you did seem to think your posts are unfairly targeted.

Eh? Stop wondering. I was purely responding to your apparently very broad condemnation of all police. Putting a 'but' at the end did not reduce it's obviously intended impact.

If you truly believe I just commented because it was you, you really do need to get over yourself. Whoever had written that would expect comment which leads one to believe that it was a likely troll. Whether it was or not, I'm sure plenty would find it offensive.

 

We're still wondering who you'd call for protection if some gun-toting nutter 'knocked' on your door.

 

I feel that stronger words could have been used in this and my earlier post but I have self moderated.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Really? Because your post essentially boils down to "that got what they deserve, just because they were police officers"

No, it didn't say that at all. Read it again. And I was agreeing with Lumaire on his comments that in many other situations much sympathy because so many officers go well outside the boundaries of what they said. And I was following on from this. Although the issue of deservedness didn't need to be discussed in the first place!

 

Nevertheless, I do wish that any thread where people die doesn't degenerate into meaningless wailing and feigned preciousness, As said before, this isn't a memorial and doesn't look like one anyway from people banging on about 'what they'd do...'. Yeah, people are angry. And there is nothing wrong with saying how much you are angry and what you'd like to happen, but when someone disagrees about anything said, stop playing the 'Think of the family card'. It's cheap and exploitative.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Eh? Stop wondering. I was purely responding to your apparently very broad condemnation of all police. Putting a 'but' at the end did not reduce it's obviously intended impact.

You've been on the forum long enough to know what my politics are. And if you understood them, you would understand why I wouldn't care less about 'the police', as an organisation. But, I do wish I hadn't said it, as I don't consider any proclamations of solidarity to carry much meaning at all than to make the poster feel they are pulling the weight. It was a non-issue. It was just the mention of it that brought chills. I should have held back.

If you truly believe I just commented because it was you, you really do need to get over yourself. Whoever had written that would expect comment which leads one to believe that it was a likely troll. Whether it was or not, I'm sure plenty would find it offensive.

It was either me or Pierrot. I am not flattering myself too much am I by thinking it was me? I suppose you may be right about the trolling thing, as I know people are dumb enough to take offence over something that I don't even think they should care about (the feelings of the UKs police force). When faced with popular nonsense, I can't help but shit stir sometimes. But I am being genuine

We're still wondering who you'd call for protection if some gun-toting nutter 'knocked' on your door.

This is another irrelevant question like the one where you ask what job I do because I don't mind people being on benefits. Irrelevant. I could answer this...again. But say I had extreme disdain (which is true) for the police because they come after people who use drugs (which I think is acceptable), then what of it if they their role has come to be one where they deal with other enforcement issues, even if they might seem needed? But let's not discuss this. It's tiring for me and everyone else.

I feel that stronger words could have been used in this and my earlier post but I have self moderated.

Why self-moderate? I am happy for you to just answer this bit, as I am happy to leave things be. I hate these sort of threads and wouldn't want to feel that I needed to argue more.

[ballaughbiker]

Just because we might have an idea of your politics doesn't mean we shouldn't comment if we disagree over a specific point. Isn't that the idea of a forum?

 

as I know people are dumb enough to take offence over something that I don't even think they should care about

Don't you realise how arrogant that appears to be? You are telling 'dumb' others what they should/should not care about. Of course, you know damn well how arrogant it is which begs another question.

 

 

This is another irrelevant question

You say questions are irrelevant when you don't want to answer them. Answering the question may draw out a discussion you don't want to get involved in and you give it a convenient swerve. You appear to condemn all police yet when someone asks you what you would do if confronted by a nutter (knowing full well the police are the only ones who could do anything about it) you don't answer. Because it would conflict with your earlier condemnation, you give it a swerve. Fine, that's your prerogative but don't dress it up as something else like saying it's irrelevant. Others may consider it highly relevant which is why they asked it in the first place.

 

Why self-moderate?

It might prevent excesses that have the potential to exacerbate someone's grief. It's not one of the better aspects of a lightly moderated forum but as Declan suggests, a bit of restraint might be better for everyone.

[Lonan3]

Sorry LDV, normally I tolerate your views but, in this case, your personal prejudices have overcome your better judgement.

 

This was a case of two young police officers being sent to investigate a report of a burglary. In case you're not aware of it, a burglary is a very distressing thing to anyone unfortunate enough to suffer it. The invasion of the place where we are surely entitled to feel some sense of security by people with malicious intent - whether that intent be to steal from or injure the occupants.

This was a case of two unarmed young females going to check out such a possible crime - as the vast majority of people would expect and want them to - and being confronted by some criminal lunatic who callously took their young lives.

Even a casual remark about police failings - or your dedication to the decriminilisation of drug taking - was totally inappropriate in this thread. Your comment was the kind of thing one would expect from the gutters of civilisation or from the fantasy world of someone totally divorced from reality.

Trolling? That's a polite word for it. I'd prefer contemptible.

I'm not always uncritical of the police, but I often find myself admiring the way they are willing to put themselves in harm's way in order to protect us from very nasty people, and they deserve credit for that. My sympathies, for what they're worth, go out to the families of those two young ladies who lost their lives doing a very necessary job.

[thommo2010]

Once again a thread on MF decends into petty arguments. Grow up guys regardless of what job these women did they were doing a job and are people and have families, keep your politics for another day and another thread.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Even a casual remark about police failings - or your dedication to the decriminilisation of drug taking - was totally inappropriate in this thread. Your comment was the kind of thing one would expect from the gutters of civilisation or from the fantasy world of someone totally divorced from reality.

Trolling? That's a polite word for it. I'd prefer contemptible.

But you are missing that the matter was brought up by another poster. I agreed with and elaborated. Which is that often the case you hear of a police officer getting a comeupence and it seems or is deserved (I believe that) but murdering someone and like this are beyond anything like that. Though I do suppose there was no need to agree with Pierrot and no need for Pierrot to mention 'deservedness'. Not because it implies anything and not because it isn;t totally irrelevent, but because people on here get all silly on here when they want to plug memorials and don't like anything that doesn't fit the pattern.

 

Now, those who (I will say again) feign that their sensibilities have been shaken by such talk are those who are too busy wanting to seem offended than to read what I am saying. I have not said that the girls deserved anything.

I'm not always uncritical of the police, but I often find myself admiring the way they are willing to put themselves in harm's way in order to protect us from very nasty people, and they deserve credit for that. My sympathies, for what they're worth, go out to the families of those two young ladies who lost their lives doing a very necessary job.

But this is your political opinion and mine differs. And this does mean that your dislike of my posts and belief that it is outrageous is partly or largely because of this disagreement.

 

But yes, I will say again. It was probably unnecessary to mention anything to do with deservedness because although we were talking about something else people get it wrong - it happens a lot with some posters. It has been said. Wish it hadn't. But the responses are...in my opinion quite ridiculous.

[Gladys]

Just shut up LDV, you have made a cock of yourself, don't try and justify it and prolong the agony. Your remarks were entirely inappropriate; that you are now continuing to argue a justification just underlines that despite your professed humanist politics, you are a self-absorbed, insensitive eejit.

[MilitantDogOwner]

You've been on the forum long enough to know what my politics are.

 

Yes. Your politics are utter bollocks with no grounding in the real world.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Just shut up LDV, you have made a cock of yourself, don't try and justify it and prolong the agony. Your remarks were entirely inappropriate; that you are now continuing to argue a justification just underlines that despite your professed humanist politics, you are a self-absorbed, insensitive eejit.

From what I have read the issue is a difference in political opinion or mistakenly thinking I am saying murder is right.

Yes. Your politics are utter bollocks with no grounding in the real world.

Oh sod off. You bloody started this.

[credente]

FFS! LDV, when you're in a hole, the best thing is to stop digging.

This thread isn't about you - so for God's sake stop your ridiculous posturing and go back to preening your self-proclaimed intellect on some other one. Your 'look at me - aren't I clever' posts are no longer just tiresome - they've become ridiculous and pathetic

Nor is this anything to do with 'politics.'

It's about two young ladies who lost their lives at the hands of a maniac when they were doing their jobs to the best of their ability.

[Chinahand]

I just want to think about the individuals involved in this tragedy.

 

The two young women, undertaking a difficult public service, often in the face of dislike from certain sections of the communities they serve.

 

The police chief when paying tribute to them said:

 

"What we've got are two young girls who went out this morning and they've got an absolute right to come home to their loved ones. This is cold-blooded murder, the slaughter of the innocents."

 

I couldn't agree more with these sentiments. I imagine most officers, when they pull on their stab vests and head out on the beat, must have a worry in the back of their mind about what some thug may try to do to them. As must most people close to a member of the police when their loved one heads out on their shift.

 

Policing should be about serving a community, stopping thugs and the like from taking advantage of people. I am glad Britain thinks its communities can be protected by young women, unarmed, going out into the communities to work to reduce crime.

 

That ideal is something to be worked for and I think these two young women exemplify this ideal in their sacrifice.

 

Of course, there is another individual involved here - Dale Cregan.

 

When compared to the two lives he's taken I shudder to think what he must be like to have committed such a crime. Nihilistic, violent, sociopathic. What a contrast to the two young women who saw their job as being protecting us from the likes of him.

 

The individuals involved sum up the best and the worst in my view.

 

Policing is a difficult career, but a dedicated one. These women have sacrificed their lives for the ideal of protecting people from criminals. People like Dale Cregan. The contrast is stark. Goodness knows how to find some good from their deaths, but they did not die in vain.

[MilitantDogOwner]

A hero is someone who stands up, when others either can't or won't.

 

These two were indeed heroes

[MilitantDogOwner]

Yes. Your politics are utter bollocks with no grounding in the real world.

 

Oh sod off. You bloody started this.

 

 

Oh no, I think you put your foot in it before I came all.

[thebees]

I do my very best to forget the names of the people who do these kinds of things. I also think that if the press were not so keen to deliver Americanised junk news (for e.g. a child laying flowers where someone was killed and a profile of the killer) there may be less of these 'wanna be the next Yorkshire ripper' fools going about killing people. It is also highly unpleasant for anyone who is related to the killer to have their family names emblazoned all over the press, the killer is obviously a tool of the highest order but he is getting his kicks by seeing himself on the TV, etc - he has no care for his parents/siblings feelings of shame which any normal person would have, anyway, I'm rambling, what I'm saying is, people should forget the names of these killers and remember the names and lives of the people who've been murdered - Do not give the pond life the satisfaction of notoriety.