Albert Tatlock Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Albert - Not really, a civil case could be made against an organisation on the basis that a child was abused in its care, even if the abuser was dead. But really this is a smokescreen you're putting up. We know his defence would be "now then, now then, now then Uncle Jimmy rattle jewellery didn't do nothing govenor" Leave aside the criminal element though there's often posthumous revelations about public figures. An extension of your stance on this case is that historians, biographers etc. would have to draw the line at what's public knowledge at the subject's death. Let me ask you, do you think all these girls are lying, and all the witnesses are making it up? As I have repeatedly said before, in response to your previous posts, I am making no defence of Jimmy Saville, only the justice system. I am saying there is a burden of proof required before people can start making financial claims, and before guilt can be assumed by the system. He is dead, so there will be no trial. People should have acted years ago, and hopefully people will learn from this. Please don't make me out as supporting Jimmy Saville just to suit your own arguments. I most certainly am not. Simplistic and emotional responses are not arguments, they just aid in forum mobbing and rabble rousing. Bad form Declan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm glad you accept the victims' accounts. I have to say there's something incredibly smug about you tutting and saying "you should have come forward earlier". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I have to say there's something incredibly smug about you tutting and saying "you should have come forward earlier". Nevertheless, that is a fact. Though hopefully people will learn from this. There is no emotion in court Declan, only facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Looking at news nowadays it appears that the only thing going on in the world right now is sexual abuse by a dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I have to say there's something incredibly smug about you tutting and saying "you should have come forward earlier". Nevertheless, that is a fact. Though hopefully people will learn from this. There is no emotion in court Declan, only facts. But we're not in court. And your reaction to these revelations is to be critical of the victims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Man LIVE Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Not sure it's entirely critical. A trifle judgemental, perhaps. I get why people don't come forwars in these matters totally. But looking at the percentage of people en masse with complaints, compared to the genuine ignored dissenters worries me a trifle ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have to say there's something incredibly smug about you tutting and saying "you should have come forward earlier". Nevertheless, that is a fact. Though hopefully people will learn from this. There is no emotion in court Declan, only facts. But we're not in court. Exactly, and no guilt has been proven, only unsubstantiated claims made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The claims have been substantiated. Or do you believe all these people are lying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The claims have been substantiated. Or do you believe all these people are lying? SO every single claim has been substantiated? DO you believe all of them are telling the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The claims have been substantiated. Or do you believe all these people are lying? SO every single claim has been substantiated? DO you believe all of them are telling the truth? More than enough will be telling the truth, there will also be those who have passed away in the meantime and those who do not want to come forward. There are also many accusations against JS in recent years, so I am sure this is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The claims have been substantiated. Or do you believe all these people are lying? How can they have? He's innocent until proven guilty & because these people have chosen to wait until he's dead that is not going to happen now. They had their chance & they chose not to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The courts aren't the only arbiters of what has happened. The "innocent until proven guilty" is a valuable tool to prevent injustices against living people, if Jimmy were alive now I'd agree we should wait until his trial. But the fact that someone has died doesn't mean that they are innocent in perpetuity - is Fred West innocent? It's interesting you guys keep dodging this question - Do you believe all the victims and witnesses are lying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It's interesting you guys keep dodging this question - Do you believe all the victims and witnesses are lying? I'll take it on. They are unlikely to be all lying but there will be a fair number that are. This kind of thing seems to attract every attention seeking nutter and there is always the inevitable proportion who think there is money to be made from a story or a compensation claim. I note already that the legal profession is jumping on the bandwagon having seen the pound signs and is getting its face on TV to encourage more to come forward. Compensation from the BBC and the NHS is being talked about. Numerous pointless "enquiries" have been announced so there is going to be lots of police time involved and the whole thing is going to cost the taxpayer a fortune. And for what? The man is dead. Monkey has it right above. They had their chance when he was alive and they didn't take it. Out of all of these victims, was there not even one of them who was outraged enough to take it all the way to the top at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It's interesting that over recent years a de-facto assumption is made that if ever multiple claims are made against a person in the public eye, a certain percentage of them must be lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credente Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The claims have been substantiated. Or do you believe all these people are lying? How can they have? He's innocent until proven guilty & because these people have chosen to wait until he's dead that is not going to happen now. They had their chance & they chose not to take it. A couple of necrophiliacs may still have things in the planning stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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