Royal Prank Call Nurse Found Dead

[ballaughbiker]

I agree Lonan and to simply dismiss those terrible depths as "poor thinking" is quite unbelievable (assuming they really believe that). Probably just trolling as usual..........

[La_Dolce_Vita]

And you seem to be making the assumption that this was something done on a whim, which she hadn't thought about for more than a few minutes.

Do I think she made the decision easily? Almost certainly not. But what you seem to missing entirely is that an idea or thought that she had is argued to have led her into an emotional state and then led to more thinking which made it seem that killing herself was a better option than staying alive. What I am saying is that this thinking is poor.

 

People can be think about things or think about decisions and with this thinking comes emotion. As a hypothetical, if someone had a really stupid idea in their head and they came to it from their imagination and then they went and did something because of it, whatever the result (good or bad) they were led there by poor thinking.

 

I would wager the vast majority of suicide is not impulsive.

But who gives a shit what your wager is. We weren't talking about other suicides. And slamming the whole history of people killing themselves is miscontruing the argument I am making.

[HeliX]

And you seem to be making the assumption that this was something done on a whim, which she hadn't thought about for more than a few minutes.

Do I think she made the decision easily? Almost certainly not. But what you seem to missing entirely is that an idea or thought that she had is argued to have led her into an emotional state and then led to more thinking which made it seem that killing herself was a better option than staying alive. What I am saying is that this thinking is poor.

 

People can be think about things or think about decisions and with this thinking comes emotion. As a hypothetical, if someone had a really stupid idea in their head and they came to it from their imagination and then they went and did something because of it, whatever the result (good or bad) they were led there by poor thinking.

You're saying that thinking is poor in your opinion. I'm not sure what divine right you claim to have to decide for other people if their life is worth living or not. Ditto for you saying about if someone had a really stupid idea in their head, you're suggesting that her thinking was stupid purely based off your own opinions.

 

I would wager the vast majority of suicide is not impulsive.

But who gives a shit what your wager is. We weren't talking about other suicides. And slamming the whole history of people killing themselves is miscontruing the argument I am making.

The argument you're making seems to be "She was clearly wrong to kill herself". Which is pretty much not your place to say in the slightest. It's not anyone but hers, and she already made her view on it clear. To argue against it is frankly disrespectful.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

May I ask? Are you the sort of person who having walked along a bridge and came to a person who was going to jump to their death just shrug your shoulders and say 'It's up to you'. Or just walk on by? Why do people try coax them down? And why are there are support services for people who contemplate ending their life?

 

If that person told you that God told them to kill themselves a week ago and did jump or if they said they had lost their job and did jump are you telling me it is not for others to decide whether they had good reasons and was it poor thinking that led them to later reach the point that life wasn't worth living?

Or if someone took a call that brought about a lot of embarrassment and they jumped, what then?

 

It is our place to say. We make judgements on others behaviour all the time. Suicide isn't something peculiar in this regard. And again, I think you muddle up understanding why they did it and how extremely strong emotions can lead people to certain thoughts and a comparison with what the form of thinking is that can develop when when high emotional states are reached.

 

You point of view on this is very weird. I don't think it is even really honest. Not in the sense that you are lying but rather than you might be following a set line of thinking which doesn't allow other important considerations to enter. You are getting quite a number of distinct matters mixed up and are throwing up all sorts of strawman whilst you plough along with your line of thinking. I don't think you can even see the argument I am making.

 

I don't think much is clear about what happened here. But only and singularly if answering the call set off thinking which led to embarrassment and then to wondering whether it is was worth living and she killed herself would I say that there was poor thinking.

[HeliX]

May I ask? Are you the sort of person who having walked along a bridge and came to a person who was going to jump to their death just shrug your shoulders and say 'It's up to you'. Or just walk on by? Why do people try coax them down? And why are there are support services for people who contemplate ending their life?

Of course I would try to talk them down. If they decided to jump regardless, I wouldn't go around saying "Oh they were thinking poorly" post-death. See, one is helpful, the other is disrespectful and trivialises their decision.

 

If that person told you that God told them to kill themselves a week ago and did jump or if they said they had lost their job and did jump are you telling me it is not for others to decide whether they had good reasons and was it poor thinking that led them to later reach the point that life wasn't worth living?

Or if someone took a call that brought about a lot of embarrassment and they jumped, what then?

 

It is our place to say. We make judgements on others behaviour all the time. Suicide isn't something peculiar in this regard. And again, I think you muddle up understanding why they did it and how extremely strong emotions can lead people to certain thoughts and a comparison with what the form of thinking is that can develop when when high emotional states are reached.

Of course it's not our place to say. Everyone should have the right to choose when their life ends. If their opinion is that it's time to end their life, then they're not wrong. It's their life. Sure, we would rather they didn't, but that doesn't make them wrong.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Why would you try and talk them down?

 

Saying something is disrespectful can mean anything. As for trivilising their decision. Nothing I am saying triviliasing it. It's tragic. Especially given that she needn't have committed suicide if it was just from embarrassment.

 

I am going to give up soon unless you stick to the argument. You are banging on about letting people die now, which is an entirely separate matter.

 

And I asked before but I will put it differently, if someone believes they have been called a supernatural entity to come and join him and they kill themselves. They had no evidence to support their belief. They just inferred such things from Harry Potter. Were they subject to poor thinking?

[manxman1980]

 

Of course I would try to talk them down.

 

Of course it's not our place to say. Everyone should have the right to choose when their life ends. If their opinion is that it's time to end their life, then they're not wrong. It's their life. Sure, we would rather they didn't, but that doesn't make them wrong.

 

 

Sorry to have cut these posts down so much but you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say you would try and talk someone down and prevent them from committing suicide but then you say everyone should have the right to choose when their life ends.

 

A choice about whether to live or die is one thing but feeling like you have no alternative is entirely different.

[HeliX]

Of course I would try to talk them down.

 

Of course it's not our place to say. Everyone should have the right to choose when their life ends. If their opinion is that it's time to end their life, then they're not wrong. It's their life. Sure, we would rather they didn't, but that doesn't make them wrong.

 

 

Sorry to have cut these posts down so much but you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say you would try and talk someone down and prevent them from committing suicide but then you say everyone should have the right to choose when their life ends.

 

A choice about whether to live or die is one thing but feeling like you have no alternative is entirely different.

It's not a contradiction.

 

I believe it's my place to try to save a life by talking to them. I don't believe it's my place to critiscize their decision if they decide to go through with it. It's two different situations, one before and one after the fact.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Why do you believe it is your place to talk them out of it?

[HeliX]

Why would you try and talk them down?

 

Saying something is disrespectful can mean anything. As for trivilising their decision. Nothing I am saying triviliasing it. It's tragic. Especially given that she needn't have committed suicide if it was just from embarrassment.

 

I am going to give up soon unless you stick to the argument. You are banging on about letting people die now, which is an entirely separate matter.

 

And I asked before but I will put it differently, if someone believes they have been called a supernatural entity to come and join him and they kill themselves. They had no evidence to support their belief. They just inferred such things from Harry Potter. Were they subject to poor thinking?

 

I would try to talk them down because I believe it's the right thing to do.

 

I'm not saying anything about letting people die, you're the one who brought up whether or not you should let someone get on with it. All I have said is it is wrong to criticize their decision after they have made it.

 

If someone killed themselves because of what essentially boils down to a hallucination, then the problem there is not the decision to end their life, it's the mental disorder which caused the hallucination.

[HeliX]

Why do you believe it is your place to talk them out of it?

 

Because on the off chance that they're only doing it because they think absolutely no-one in the world cares whether they do or not, perhaps I can show them otherwise.

 

I should clarify, I'm not pro-suicide, and I'm certainly not anti-helping people, but I AM against criticising their actions/thought process after the fact.

[manxman1980]

I struggle with your views but they are after all your own. I think we can all acknowledge that the tragedy is that this nurse should never have found herself having to deal with a couple of Australian DJ's trying to be funny. It seems to me a Hospital procedure either failed, never existed or adequate training and support was not given.

 

I do not believe anyone was really critising the Nurse for her actions but merely trying to comprehend why she should have felt that this was the right course of action.

[quilp]

Nothing's ever cut and dried with you LDV. And l'd agree that some of your posts relating to this thread are self-contradictory at times, thus confusing and contentious.

To attempt to talk a complete stranger down from the brink is a part of our altruistic nature and the reaction, i would hope, of most human beings.

There is nothing hypothetical about making a judgement in such circumstance. But for you, it would be perfectly ok to walk away if you're sure the jumper had thought about his actions and decided that his was the only way out of his/her torment. And you'd do nothing to help? That may be ok in the case of terminal illness and final dignity as the mindset is made and the reasons logical.

Most impulsive suicides are a cry for help, and just that. The permanence of death is the last thing on the mind of most suicides, especially-so with the impulsive ones.

Arguing for arguments sake and nothing else...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I would try to talk them down because I believe it's the right thing to do.

I am sure you don't think that is a satisfactory reply to my question. Why do you feel it is the right thing to do?

I'm not saying anything about letting people die, you're the one who brought up whether or not you should let someone get on with it. All I have said is it is wrong to criticize their decision after they have made it.

I think you dwelling on the word 'wrong', which I haven't used, and because it can imply a lack of understanding use this to inform your argument.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Because on the off chance that they're only doing it because they think absolutely no-one in the world cares whether they do or not, perhaps I can show them otherwise.

Ok, so you do care about what they do or not. Why? I ask this because it looks like you on contradictory grounds when it comes to this view you have of judgement.