Pinewood...more Govt Propaganda

[hboy]

 

 

 

Private businesses at least publish audited accounts,

Not in the Isle of Man.

Well that's generally true. But I would hope its a requirement for being handed a government contract?

[NoTail]

No

[Lxxx]

 

Why have we got so many people being overpaid and drawing vastly inflated salaries and benefits which are dragging the island under?

Assuming that's a literal, as opposed to a rhetorical, question: I don't know that we do. Who should we compare our costs against and who determines what we should expect from govt? Most of the comment on this forum tends to be fairly knee jerk and reactionary. We need more evidence of what the costs should be.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt of your staunch defence of the need for big government on a small island, what's the rationale for the obscene cost of it then?

I am not especially defending the need for big government.Look at it like this: In general, the more people pay for a thing, the less it costs. We need govt and our govt needs to provide everything that anyone 30 miles east of Maughold would expect from govt. The point being that it may be that the cost of govt would decrease if the population were larger, for example. It's the same as - e.g. our hospital needs to do everything that a hospital serving a much larger population would do.It might be that relatively expensive govt is an inevitable outcome of us not being part of a bigger whole.

You keep coming up with the same tosh and the more you say it the less sense it continues to make. Government costs a lot because we have a small population? Now in your warped mind that probably makes sense, goodness knows how, but it seems to. Now in a sane person's mind a small population would seem to warrant a small government as there are less people to provide services for, therefore it does not require an army of workers to either carry out those roles or administer the general day to day running of government. On this rock presently we have an army of government workers as well as huge amounts of manager's to administer it, currently costing the island annually more than we take in tax revenues. Spot the problem.

[pongo]

You keep coming up with the same tosh and the more you say it the less sense it continues to make. Government costs a lot because we have a small population? Now in your warped mind that probably makes sense, goodness knows how, but it seems to. Now in a sane person's mind a small population would seem to warrant a small government as there are less people to provide services for, therefore it does not require an army of workers to either carry out those roles or administer the general day to day running of government. On this rock presently we have an army of government workers as well as huge amounts of manager's to administer it, currently costing the island annually more than we take in tax revenues. Spot the problem.

If you think it through from an economic perspective you might begin to understand exactly what I mean about the govt of a small population being potentially very much more expensive.

 

Take the hospital as just one example. Our general hospital is a govt service. It needs the same machines, and the same systems as any hospital serving a much larger population - no matter that there are many fewer patients. And it needs expensive specialist staff - just as good as any other population have a right to expect. Granted you may need fewer actual beds. But many of the costs are the same no matter that the population the hospital serves is much smaller. The hospital would likely be much more cost effective if it served a larger population.

 

Many aspects of govt services are affected by very similar economics. It's about scale. We need all of the same things that any other govt provides - but serving a much smaller population. Including expensive systems which are required to be compatible with how things are done in the surrounding islands.

 

ETA: incidentally - I find your use of language offensive. I do not see the need for you to take a conversation and turn it nasty. Can you not discuss the points on some sort of level and without being boorish ?

[Lisenchuk]

Your reasoning regarding scale and level of cost for appropriate provision is extremely flawed.

 

You do not require the same hospital and associated costs for a population of 80,000 as you would for twice that number.

[Lxxx]

 

You keep coming up with the same tosh and the more you say it the less sense it continues to make. Government costs a lot because we have a small population? Now in your warped mind that probably makes sense, goodness knows how, but it seems to. Now in a sane person's mind a small population would seem to warrant a small government as there are less people to provide services for, therefore it does not require an army of workers to either carry out those roles or administer the general day to day running of government. On this rock presently we have an army of government workers as well as huge amounts of manager's to administer it, currently costing the island annually more than we take in tax revenues. Spot the problem.

If you think it through from an economic perspective you might begin to understand exactly what I mean about the govt of a small population being potentially very much more expensive.

Take the hospital as just one example. Our general hospital is a govt service. It needs the same machines, and the same systems as any hospital serving a much larger population - no matter that there are many fewer patients. And it needs expensive specialist staff - just as good as any other population have a right to expect. Granted you may need fewer actual beds. But many of the costs are the same no matter that the population the hospital serves is much smaller. The hospital would likely be much more cost effective if it served a larger population.

Many aspects of govt services are affected by very similar economics. It's about scale. We need all of the same things that any other govt provides - but serving a much smaller population. Including expensive systems which are required to be compatible with how things are done in the surrounding islands.

ETA: incidentally - I find your use of language offensive. I do not see the need for you to take a conversation and turn it nasty. Can you not discuss the points on some sort of level and without being boorish ?

I apologise if the use of common sense is offensive. I'll try and refrain from using such nasty language.

[dilligaf]

Your reasoning regarding scale and level of cost for appropriate provision is extremely flawed.

 

You do not require the same hospital and associated costs for a population of 80,000 as you would for twice that number.

I disagree. I think Pongo is correct. You still need the same specialities and the same range of services, although for 160,000 you would need a lot more beds. Which services or treatments (that we have now) would you say are not required becauce we only have 80,000 people here?. Seems a strange arguement to me.

[woolley]

 

Your reasoning regarding scale and level of cost for appropriate provision is extremely flawed.

 

You do not require the same hospital and associated costs for a population of 80,000 as you would for twice that number.

I disagree. I think Pongo is correct. You still need the same specialities and the same range of services, although for 160,000 you would need a lot more beds. Which services or treatments (that we have now) would you say are not required becauce we only have 80,000 people here?. Seems a strange arguement to me.

I think pragmatism dictates that the smaller the population, the less you can hope to do by way of medical speciality. Of course you have the general hospital and perhaps the abundant availability of cash has made us over expectant of the services we can reasonably expect from it. There is a long road between first aid and open heart or brain surgery. What is available here has to be pitched somewhere on that road and essential service provision is one of the reasons why waste must be cut. When all is said and done, we cannot possibly have the acute care that is available to a large population and some of us will undoubtedly meet early deaths for that reason. One of the compromises you make in living on a remote island.

Edited February 17, 2014 by woolley

[Donald Trumps]

Is there a sort of 'health users group' like there is for travel?

[woolley]

I am not sure. I doubt it though. It doesn't have the same anorak appeal.

[Ron Burgandy]

No doubt this will be heralded as great news and make the government a gazillion pounds

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-26226429

[Donald Trumps]

Good to see the Welsh Government following Fast Eddie's lead there

 

Hey, aren't they in the financial mire as well? Maybe Eddie will recommend a tax on toilets to them as well

 

 

 

*tax the shit out of people*

Edited February 17, 2014 by Donald Trumps

[Lost Login]

So for the Welsh Government investing a similar amount of funds on a similar basis as the IoM Govt they get a permanent film studio in Wales which may well be used for other productions other than those in which the Welsh Govt is partly investing in, potentially many permanent jobs etc and they do not have to gamble miliions in the shares of Pinewood. Whether or not I agree with the Welsh Govt investing money I can at least see the logic of why you might do so in return for the film studios which might get other productions, permanent employment etc.

[Andy Onchan]

So for the Welsh Government investing a similar amount of funds on a similar basis as the IoM Govt they get a permanent film studio in Wales which may well be used for other productions other than those in which the Welsh Govt is partly investing in, potentially many permanent jobs etc and they do not have to gamble miliions in the shares of Pinewood. Whether or not I agree with the Welsh Govt investing money I can at least see the logic of why you might do so in return for the film studios which might get other productions, permanent employment etc.

If the Welsh Assembly are expecting to create significant new jobs in Wales then they should think again. The movie industry by it's nature is highly mobile, it has to be. I'm sure all that will happen is that the UK government will have to spend more on road works as the traffic increases on the M4 corridor as the lighting, carpenters, props, costumes and catering wagons shuttle back and forth between Pinewood/Shepperton & Cardiff.

[Lost Login]

 

So for the Welsh Government investing a similar amount of funds on a similar basis as the IoM Govt they get a permanent film studio in Wales which may well be used for other productions other than those in which the Welsh Govt is partly investing in, potentially many permanent jobs etc and they do not have to gamble miliions in the shares of Pinewood. Whether or not I agree with the Welsh Govt investing money I can at least see the logic of why you might do so in return for the film studios which might get other productions, permanent employment etc.

If the Welsh Assembly are expecting to create significant new jobs in Wales then they should think again. The movie industry by it's nature is highly mobile, it has to be. I'm sure all that will happen is that the UK government will have to spend more on road works as the traffic increases on the M4 corridor as the lighting, carpenters, props, costumes and catering wagons shuttle back and forth between Pinewood/Shepperton & Cardiff.

 

No idea what the Welsh govt are expecting or whether it stands up as an idea but I can see the logic of the argument for it if you are getting someting in return. In this case a film studio. I think Cardiff already has a reasonable media presence as I think Dr Who is made there as are a few other BBC programmes.