Aquarius Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I disagree most vehemently with your last paragraph, you may speak for yourself. Whilst I maintain that within everyone is a potential killer, to kill would be in extreme circumstances, for example; to defend one's family or one's self, to protect someone who is being tortured/raped etc., or to have to kill in the event of war and even to kill to acquire food, however to kill after or during a sexual act of any kind is not within all of us at all and doesn't need guarding against. Or were you referring to mankind in general/collectively? I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree - partly. The feelings I described are buried so deeply inside most of us that the chances are that we will never be aware of them. Having said that, however, do you really think that the people who manned the concentration camps and performed all kinds of disgusting and degrading acts on the inmates were members of a different species? Or that those who did the same in Japanese POW camps or, more recently in Bosnia and Kosovo were lesser human beings? The truth is that, had it not been for the exceptional circumstances in which they - and probably many thousands of others - found themselves in, they would have gone through their lives just like you or I; completely unaware of the depravity that their normally dormant genetic heritage made them capable of. I have seen an experiment in which 'ordinary' men were placed in control of others - a situation of prisoners and warders - which resulted in those playing the part of the custodians undergoing a frightening change in their personalities. They became not only domineering and contemptuous of those playing the part of prisoners (who, incidentally, became subservient to the point where they were sometimes admitting 'crimes' they'd only imagined), but actually forced the experiment to be cancelled when they began to display violent tendencies towards the 'captives.' Violence is an innate part of our species. Civilisation, and social integration, has made it unacceptable. But that does not mean that we - any of us - have completely eliminated it from our character. From a personal point of view, I deplore violence of any kind. It genuinely sickens me - whatever the motivation for it may be. But I am also aware of the fact that our civilisation still has a long way to travel before anyone can truthfully say that such instincts, such deep-rooted and abominable feelings, are completely removed from our personas. An intelligent and interesting post, I understand the suggestion that violence is innate and from studying psychology myself I know that discussion has moved on to why this violence is triggered to action in some rather that others - ie psychopathic personality traits. The Stanford studies you mention, however , were experiments into power, where actors were assigned roles. Again, Milgrams study showed that humans will torture another if they feel that individual responsibility is removed and that a person in power was in charge. The situation in India was of all people being equal ( on a level ) on a bus, going some places, no roles assigned. Something triggered a pack mentality where it became " acceptable " for a group of men to violate a woman and beat her and her fiancé. Where was the bus driver I wonder? Did he join in? Was alcohol or drugs involved? People don't NORMALLY go to quite such extremes on buses that are just going some place. : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I disagree most vehemently with your last paragraph, you may speak for yourself. Whilst I maintain that within everyone is a potential killer, to kill would be in extreme circumstances, for example; to defend one's family or one's self, to protect someone who is being tortured/raped etc., or to have to kill in the event of war and even to kill to acquire food, however to kill after or during a sexual act of any kind is not within all of us at all and doesn't need guarding against. Or were you referring to mankind in general/collectively? I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree - partly. The feelings I described are buried so deeply inside most of us that the chances are that we will never be aware of them. Having said that, however, do you really think that the people who manned the concentration camps and performed all kinds of disgusting and degrading acts on the inmates were members of a different species? Or that those who did the same in Japanese POW camps or, more recently in Bosnia and Kosovo were lesser human beings? The truth is that, had it not been for the exceptional circumstances in which they - and probably many thousands of others - found themselves in, they would have gone through their lives just like you or I; completely unaware of the depravity that their normally dormant genetic heritage made them capable of. I have seen an experiment in which 'ordinary' men were placed in control of others - a situation of prisoners and warders - which resulted in those playing the part of the custodians undergoing a frightening change in their personalities. They became not only domineering and contemptuous of those playing the part of prisoners (who, incidentally, became subservient to the point where they were sometimes admitting 'crimes' they'd only imagined), but actually forced the experiment to be cancelled when they began to display violent tendencies towards the 'captives.' Violence is an innate part of our species. Civilisation, and social integration, has made it unacceptable. But that does not mean that we - any of us - have completely eliminated it from our character. From a personal point of view, I deplore violence of any kind. It genuinely sickens me - whatever the motivation for it may be. But I am also aware of the fact that our civilisation still has a long way to travel before anyone can truthfully say that such instincts, such deep-rooted and abominable feelings, are completely removed from our personas. An intelligent and interesting post, I understand the suggestion that violence is innate and from studying psychology myself I know that discussion has moved on to why this violence is triggered to action in some rather that others - ie psychopathic personality traits. The Stanford studies you mention, however , were experiments into power, where actors were assigned roles. Again, Milgrams study showed that humans will torture another if they feel that individual responsibility is removed and that a person in power was in charge. The situation in India was of all people being equal ( on a level ) on a bus, going some places, no roles assigned. Something triggered a pack mentality where it became " acceptable " for a group of men to violate a woman and beat her and her fiancé. Where was the bus driver I wonder? Did he join in? Was alcohol or drugs involved? People don't NORMALLY go to quite such extremes on buses that are just going some place. : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgain Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Story line sort of reminds me of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, the point at which she inserts and kicks it in as hard as possible made me cringe! I'd also assume this was punishment for something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Story line sort of reminds me of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, the point at which she inserts and kicks it in as hard as possible made me cringe! Into herself or another woman? Haven't seen it I'd also assume this was punishment for something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guardone Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 http://www.avaaz.org...bLjBtbb&v=20663 Sign up and sign the petition above., and send it to your friends. I have read recently about the situation in parts of India, where varities of sexual assault in public places and on public transport is very common. This lady fought back so they killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 but there is less chance of alcohol being a factor ( and let's face it - much of violent crime involves booze ). But more chance of...getting it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 but there is less chance of alcohol being a factor ( and let's face it - much of violent crime involves booze ). But more chance of...getting it up. Is that supposed to be funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterflies Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes, was that suppose to be funny LDV? It looks like these fucks are getting the death penalty for this, I hope so. There comes a time when a message needs to be sent. This will not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yin & Yang Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm afraid that, without wishing to be contentious, I have to agree with LDV. To people like ourselves this may seem an act beyond comprehension - something that no sane human being could possibly be involved in. It - quite naturally - arouses feelings of anger, of repulsion and utter despair. Unfortunately though, this is the kind of thing that happens when the thin veneer of civilisation is torn away to reveal the beast that lies within. The reason that human beings made it to the top of the animal kingdom is not simply that they were the cleverest or the most adaptable - but also because they were the most fearsome and ruthless. This kind of what, to most of us, appears a sick perversion, is something that has probably happened many times and gone unreported in times of war and, if you think that ridiculous, just remember the kind of tortures that Ian Brady and Myra Hindley inflicted on their helpless young victims - purely for sexual gratification. I agree that the men who were responsible for this disgusting act should forfeit their lives - anything less would be intolerable and would send out the wrong message to those who regard other people as potential playthings on which to slake their lust - but we have to be careful to recognise that they, and this incident, are far from unique. The potential to commit acts such as this may be dormant inside us, but that potential is the heritage of our ancestors and we have to constantly guard against it ever seeking to emerge. I disagree most vehemently with your last paragraph, you may speak for yourself. Whilst I maintain that within everyone is a potential killer, to kill would be in extreme circumstances, for example; to defend one's family or one's self, to protect someone who is being tortured/raped etc., or to have to kill in the event of war and even to kill to acquire food, however to kill after or during a sexual act of any kind is not within all of us at all and doesn't need guarding against. Or were you referring to mankind in general/collectively? I have unfortunately been in the position of having to protect myself by the 'kill or be killed' syndrome, (although I didn't manage to kill anyone) does that make me a monster too? I can honestly say it is at the forefront of my life knowing that I was able to do that, once you have tipped over that edge there is no going back! That doesn't mean that could 'kill' just anyone now! Knowing what I know and being where I've been simply makes me - me! As for the scumbags whom carried out this attack death is simply just to easy - put them in a women's prison and see how they like the domination of attacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulokin Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 k should be banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 k should be banned K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ketamine, I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Katie Price would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ketamine, I'd imagine. Am I missing something? What has ketamine got to do with it? Is that what the rapists were taking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Katie Price would be my guess. I will second that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.