wrighty Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21459240 Charged with murder apparently. Bad line alert...... Surprised he did it with a gun, and not a blade. (I'll get me coat!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Looking like he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Assuming the facts are as the initial press reports say I'm a bit surprised he's been charged with murder. I presume its down to recklessness, but the intention is definitely confused - he didn't intend to kill "her" he thought he was defending himself from intruders. Surely, assuming those are the facts, there is mitigation. I realize the use of deadly force in self defense is one complicated area of law - I presume the case will depend upon whether it can be argued that his actions were reasonable, and whether deadly force can ever be reasonable. The farmer who shot the traveller burglars went after them and carried on firing well after an argument of self defence had passed - he went on the offensive! This case seems more complex as there is the issue of mistaken identity. I presume Barrie Stevens will weigh in and be told he doesn't know what he's talking about by John Wright, but I wonder what the arguments would be like in a British/Manx court. The facts reported so far seem pretty simple - the only issue is motive. Of course there may be LOTS more to come out which makes all this irrelevent, but the basics - a guy wakes up hears an intruder, grabs a gun, in the dark believes he is in danger and fires killing his innocent girl friend - is that murder? Guns hey - guns don't kill people, having them readily available for fallible people to use them is what kills people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 She was bang tidy as well.....foooool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I realize the use of deadly force in self defense is one complicated area of law - I presume the case will depend upon whether it can be argued that his actions were reasonable, and whether deadly force can ever be reasonable. The farmer who shot the traveller burglars went after them and carried on firing well after an argument of self defence had passed - he went on the offensive! Farmer Tony Martin deserved to go to prison - because he only wounded one of them! I have to say I'm surprised at your "whether deadly force can ever be reasonable" question Mr C. I suspect you have never been to SA. The US and Mexico etc are very tame compared to SA. Human life out there really is cheap - they will kill you just to steal your car. For a wealthy white security is not just important but a necessity including the use of deadly force to counter a deadly threat - which could be just around the next corner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdose Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Personally I blame heavy metal, more so Bullet for My Valentine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 P.K. I'm talking about the legal issues, not moral ones. I don't know South African law so was using British Law. South African law has charged him with murder. I am reasonably surprised by that, as you say violence is common so I thought the law would be more lenient in the use of deadly force where a person believed they were using self defence (UK law is a mess - I've no idea anymore if self-defence can be used to mitigate deadly force - it used NOT to be, I think it now is). Obviously there are lots of unknowns so maybe the simple story been given at the moment will become more complicated. I therefore just asked how would British law deal with a case of someone thinking they were at risk and so shooting only to discover they had mistakenly killed someone. Would it be automatically a murder charge? I lived in South Africa for a few years right over the transition to democracy. We lost employees to gun violence. I was young and reckless and loved the place and the life, but now I'm old and a dad I feel for friends who can't afford gated communities. Several of them have donated their cars to the New South Africa - you just get out of the car and don't make a fuss - though one friend (a girl) kicked up a huge fuss as they tried reversing out of her under-ground car park only to have her old banger break down - she on the outside screaming blue murder, 3 gun men sitting in a no longer working car. They exchanged looks and sheepishly got out of the car and left. She was one lucky lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgandy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 What type of gun did he use? Bet it was a sawn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I don't know South African law so was using British Law. South African law has charged him with murder. I am reasonably surprised by that, as you say violence is common so I thought the law would be more lenient in the use of deadly force where a person believed they were using self defence (UK law is a mess - I've no idea anymore if self-defence can be used to mitigate deadly force - it used NOT to be, I think it now is). Obviously there are lots of unknowns so maybe the simple story been given at the moment will become more complicated. I therefore just asked how would British law deal with a case of someone thinking they were at risk and so shooting only to discover they had mistakenly killed someone. Would it be automatically a murder charge? They had to charge him either with manslaughter or murder. As there is (apparently) some history of previous domestic "upheavals" shall we say then they decided the charge would be murder. That's my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 The South African police don't know where the rumour of him believeing she was an intruder came from. Seems he may actually have just murdered her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Looking like he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Got a spring in his step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbert Hickmann Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 He was hopping mad when they got him...he's only good for about 200m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgandy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 He had the world at his knees. Now he's thrown it all away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 She was bang tidy as well.....foooool You're not kidding ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 She was bang tidy as well.....foooool You're not kidding ! That's a damn shame. I hope they throw the book at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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