P.K. Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 When you put money in a bank you're actually INVESTING in that bank. If it bellies up IMHO then it's only fair that the investors take the hit rather than the poor bloody taxpayer. After all, if you have invested unwisely then you only have yourself to blame.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Most people don't understand the complexities of economics, nor are shareholders who can investigate the policies of the bank they are with. Most are reliant on a regulator for this. Perhaps it is time people became automatic shareholders of the banks they are with (0.01 shares per £1 invested or whatever), and be given the automatic right to see/question the policies of the bank they are with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 When you put money in a bank you're actually INVESTING in that bank. If it bellies up IMHO then it's only fair that the investors take the hit rather than the poor bloody taxpayer. After all, if you have invested unwisely then you only have yourself to blame.... If you buy shares in a bank you're investing. When you deposit money you are entrusting the bank to manage your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Most people don't understand the complexities of economics, nor are shareholders who can investigate the policies of the bank they are with. Most are reliant on a regulator for this. Perhaps it is time people became automatic shareholders of the banks they are with (0.01 shares per £1 invested or whatever), and be given the automatic right to see/question the policies of the bank they are with. Being a shareholder doesn't give you that right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you buy shares in a bank you're investing. When you deposit money you are entrusting the bank to manage your money. Correct. You are entrusting them to INVEST it for you to hopefully pay you a divvy. More fool you if you entrusted unwisely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Most people don't understand the complexities of economics, nor are shareholders who can investigate the policies of the bank they are with. Most are reliant on a regulator for this. Perhaps it is time people became automatic shareholders of the banks they are with (0.01 shares per £1 invested or whatever), and be given the automatic right to see/question the policies of the bank they are with. Being a shareholder doesn't give you that right Maybe it should was my point - provided a certain percentage of shareholders had to get together to get the answer, rather than Mrs Trellis sending a letter everyday and becoming an admin burdon asking questions about the morality of investing in rat milk farms in Romania and the like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Perhaps it is time people became automatic shareholders of the banks they are with (0.01 shares per £1 invested or whatever), and be given the automatic right to see/question the policies of the bank they are with. Its arguable that even when presented with that information most would be none the wiser....credit default swaps...short selling....its double dutch to the average bank depositor (arguably double dutch to the regulators too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you buy shares in a bank you're investing. When you deposit money you are entrusting the bank to manage your money. Correct. You are entrusting them to INVEST it for you to hopefully pay you a divvy. More fool you if you entrusted unwisely.... No, from a bank you get interest in a deposit account, dividend comes from shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you buy shares in a bank you're investing. When you deposit money you are entrusting the bank to manage your money. Correct. You are entrusting them to INVEST it for you to hopefully pay you a divvy. More fool you if you entrusted unwisely.... No, from a bank you get interest in a deposit account, dividend comes from shares. Semantics rule eh? Just an expression nothing more. But the basic premise is still correct. If you put your cash in a bank, for the sake of discussion let's call it KSFIOM, you do it because you are, say, attracted by an above average rate of interest and a guarantee of discretion. So if that bank then invests your money unwisely and goes tits-up why should Joe Public make good the banks failure? One reason might be if a very short-sighted government created a mono-economy based purely on finance. Then it simply couldn't afford to have investors heading for the hills in fear of their savings so they might offer all sorts of inducements to keep them sweet including public money insurance. So IMHO this problem in Cyprus isn't really going to reverberate around the markets as it's very very localised i.e. just one bank in one of the most miniscule economies in the EU. However I suspect it will not have done investor confidence in seedy little tax havens any good at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 So IMHO this problem in Cyprus isn't really going to reverberate around the markets as it's very very localised i.e. just one bank in one of the most miniscule economies in the EU. However I suspect it will not have done investor confidence in seedy little tax havens any good at all.... The seedy little tax haven idea is misplaced. Cyprus, although a tax haven, is simply the first country to fall prey to German demands. They should get out od the euro NOW and let their recovery begin. At the moment, Cyprus is being held to ransome. That is not going to stop until every last cent of wealth is drained out of them. Greece managed to defer it a bit longer. As I said toungue in cheek earlier in this thread, the uk should bail cyprus out in return exclusive rights to the gas fields and on condition they join the Pound, with a deposit held by the Crown, in a similar manner to IOM, Jersey, Gib, etc. Possibly make the Pound the second Euro (greece, spain, Ireland, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you buy shares in a bank you're investing. When you deposit money you are entrusting the bank to manage your money. Correct. You are entrusting them to INVEST it for you to hopefully pay you a divvy. More fool you if you entrusted unwisely.... No, from a bank you get interest in a deposit account, dividend comes from shares. Semantics rule eh? Just an expression nothing more. But the basic premise is still correct. If you put your cash in a bank, for the sake of discussion let's call it KSFIOM, you do it because you are, say, attracted by an above average rate of interest and a guarantee of discretion. So if that bank then invests your money unwisely and goes tits-up why should Joe Public make good the banks failure? One reason might be if a very short-sighted government created a mono-economy based purely on finance. Then it simply couldn't afford to have investors heading for the hills in fear of their savings so they might offer all sorts of inducements to keep them sweet including public money insurance. So IMHO this problem in Cyprus isn't really going to reverberate around the markets as it's very very localised i.e. just one bank in one of the most miniscule economies in the EU. However I suspect it will not have done investor confidence in seedy little tax havens any good at all.... I agree with your point, but it's a point most people do not understand. When you deposit your money into a bank your deposit then becomes a liability on their balance sheet. If they then play fast and loose with it and it goes tits up then on the list of creditors you're at the bottom. Most people think of a bank as a safe place to store your money and it used to be until the world of crazy casino banking changed all that. However all banks are technically insolvent as fractional reserve banking means they do not have enough assets to cover all their liabilities so the whole thing becomes based on trust, trust that their deposits are safe and trust that everyone won't all look to pull their money out all at once. With the Dutch Finance Minister stating that the Cyprus bail-in model will now be used as a template for future bank failures and the EU re-writing the definition of a bank deposit, that trust is in danger of being broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 So IMHO this problem in Cyprus isn't really going to reverberate around the markets as it's very very localised i.e. just one bank in one of the most miniscule economies in the EU. However I suspect it will not have done investor confidence in seedy little tax havens any good at all.... The seedy little tax haven idea is misplaced. Cyprus, although a tax haven, is simply the first country to fall prey to German demands. They should get out od the euro NOW and let their recovery begin. At the moment, Cyprus is being held to ransome. That is not going to stop until every last cent of wealth is drained out of them. Greece managed to defer it a bit longer. As I said toungue in cheek earlier in this thread, the uk should bail cyprus out in return exclusive rights to the gas fields and on condition they join the Pound, with a deposit held by the Crown, in a similar manner to IOM, Jersey, Gib, etc. Possibly make the Pound the second Euro (greece, spain, Ireland, etc.) I'm not sure the Turkey (in all but name) administered half of the island would go along with that. You don't suppose Nicosia is feeling just a little bit smug right now do you? And they've got the best beaches as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 The seedy little tax haven idea is misplaced. Cyprus, although a tax haven, is simply the first country to fall prey to German demands. They should get out od the euro NOW and let their recovery begin. At the moment, Cyprus is being held to ransome. That is not going to stop until every last cent of wealth is drained out of them. Greece managed to defer it a bit longer. As I said toungue in cheek earlier in this thread, the uk should bail cyprus out in return exclusive rights to the gas fields and on condition they join the Pound, with a deposit held by the Crown, in a similar manner to IOM, Jersey, Gib, etc. Possibly make the Pound the second Euro (greece, spain, Ireland, etc.) They can't get out of the Euro - all those Russians were attracted to Cyprus largely because they could launder all their ill gotten gains in Euro's not shitty Cyprus Pounds. Not only did it have totally crap AML legislation but it also gave you a European account in a freely exchangeable hard currency so you could move it over to any other European bank if you needed to without the f/x costs or any other risks. Its probably why they have taken a 40% hit on the chin - because its better than having your rainy day money revalued into a pathetically a weak non Eurozone currency or wiped out in a bust bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Will be interesting to see what savers in Spain with over 100K in their accounts start doing over the next few days/weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Bean Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 There are very few instances where I can feel smug by not having any money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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