What's The Betting On A Eurozone Wide Banking Crash By Friday?

[Albert Tatlock]

Obviously you'd need checks and balances to avoid another Weimar Republic scenario but the key point is that it would be money owed to no third party and not created as debt.

 

Q1: would you allow ET & AB access to a money printing machine? I wouldn't...

They've already got one in effect...they can put as many Manx notes in circulation as they can and bank the English equivalent to get the interest on it, as meanwhile people pass meaningless (wrt England) bank of La La Land notes to each other on island - but have to exchange them for proper money if they leave.

Correction - have to exchange them for a different bank of La La Land money if they leave.

Eh?

[Cambon]

Obviously you'd need checks and balances to avoid another Weimar Republic scenario but the key point is that it would be money owed to no third party and not created as debt.

 

Q1: would you allow ET & AB access to a money printing machine? I wouldn't...

They've already got one in effect...they can put as many Manx notes in circulation as they can and bank the English equivalent to get the interest on it, as meanwhile people pass meaningless (wrt England) bank of La La Land notes to each other on island - but have to exchange them for proper money if they leave.

Correction - have to exchange them for a different bank of La La Land money if they leave.

Eh?

There is not proper money, Other than precious metals, it is all trust, it is all La La Land money

[Lxxx]

Some quotes from a variety of esteemed and intelligent men who have far more knowledge and experience of the current monetary setup than me.

 

http://www.themoneym...ons-on-banking/

 

That's some fascinating anti-banking sentiment, but I don't see how that answers the question I asked you?

It's not anti-banking sentiment, it's an appraisal of the current system of central banking. Every unit 'printed' is loaned to governments with interest for them to use to structure their economies. This needn't be the case if governments had control of their own printing presses (with the correct mechanisms in place to ensure they didn't abuse it). The issue here is the interest governments have to find to pay back the loans they took out from the central banks in the first place. These banks act as some kind of higher power for governments to kowtow to and this wasn't always the case, it's crept in over the centuries as power bases have become more established, to the point now where they are now acting as some kind of feudal lords over the rest of the world.

[Slim]

It's not anti-banking sentiment, it's an appraisal of the current system of central banking. Every unit 'printed' is loaned to governments with interest for them to use to structure their economies. This needn't be the case if governments had control of their own printing presses (with the correct mechanisms in place to ensure they didn't abuse it). The issue here is the interest governments have to find to pay back the loans they took out from the central banks in the first place. These banks act as some kind of higher power for governments to kowtow to and this wasn't always the case, it's crept in over the centuries as power bases have become more established, to the point now where they are now acting as some kind of feudal lords over the rest of the world.

 

I like the way you claim it isn't anti-banking then go on and write an anti-banking rant.

 

Either way, you've still not answered the question.

[Lxxx]

It's not anti-banking sentiment, it's an appraisal of the current system of central banking. Every unit 'printed' is loaned to governments with interest for them to use to structure their economies. This needn't be the case if governments had control of their own printing presses (with the correct mechanisms in place to ensure they didn't abuse it). The issue here is the interest governments have to find to pay back the loans they took out from the central banks in the first place. These banks act as some kind of higher power for governments to kowtow to and this wasn't always the case, it's crept in over the centuries as power bases have become more established, to the point now where they are now acting as some kind of feudal lords over the rest of the world.

 

I like the way you claim it isn't anti-banking then go on and write an anti-banking rant.

 

Either way, you've still not answered the question.

As you clearly cannot differentiate between the current central banking philosophy and banking in general (and the fact that one is a variation of the other and therefore is/should be open to other methods of operation) then I'll leave my discussions to people who can grasp it.

[Slim]

As you clearly cannot differentiate between the current central banking philosophy and banking in general (and the fact that one is a variation of the other and therefore is/should be open to other methods of operation) then I'll leave my discussions to people who can grasp it.

 

Ah, more evasion. I didn't ask about banking, central or otherwise. I asked about the nature of money. You said:

 

"There is no real money, every single unit of currency that has been printed into existence today exists as debt. "

 

I asked what money is real money? I understand money to be a consistent unit of exchange, it exists as an alternative to using 'real' commodities to represent value. What would make money more 'real' for you?

[Lxxx]

As you clearly cannot differentiate between the current central banking philosophy and banking in general (and the fact that one is a variation of the other and therefore is/should be open to other methods of operation) then I'll leave my discussions to people who can grasp it.

 

Ah, more evasion. I didn't ask about banking, central or otherwise. I asked about the nature of money. You said:

 

"There is no real money, every single unit of currency that has been printed into existence today exists as debt. "

 

I asked what money is real money? I understand money to be a consistent unit of exchange, it exists as an alternative to using 'real' commodities to represent value. What would make money more 'real' for you?

Okay, I'll take your pedantic bait. I agree, we have advanced past using physical units due to the nature our societies have progressed technologically. However each unit of currency in existence is a unit of debt, it is printed out of thin air, backed by nothing and has interest owed to the central banks for the privilege of flicking that digit on the computer. Once we eradicate that fundamental basis of debt-based 'money' from the outset we can then start to have an economy whereby 'money' is created not for the purpose of enriching a select few at the top of the pyramid but as an interest-free tool in which to conduct a global economy and trade.

[Albert Tatlock]

Obviously you'd need checks and balances to avoid another Weimar Republic scenario but the key point is that it would be money owed to no third party and not created as debt.

 

Q1: would you allow ET & AB access to a money printing machine? I wouldn't...

They've already got one in effect...they can put as many Manx notes in circulation as they can and bank the English equivalent to get the interest on it, as meanwhile people pass meaningless (wrt England) bank of La La Land notes to each other on island - but have to exchange them for proper money if they leave.

Correction - have to exchange them for a different bank of La La Land money if they leave.

Eh?

There is not proper money, Other than precious metals, it is all trust, it is all La La Land money

I think you missed my point. Manx money is not real money, sterling is.

 

Without getting into the Looney Tunes debate that has become this thread...you can't put £1 Million of Manx notes into a UK bank and earn interest on it, as the bank won't accept the Manx notes. But IOM treasury can keep back a couple of £Million in UK notes and then bank them, then issue the equivalent Manx money instead for local circulation, and still earn interest on the same amount in a UK bank - at the same time.

 

Of course if people leave they can't take the Manx money with them, we have to reimburse the Manx money with UK money, taking it out of a UK bank to give them.

[Slim]

Okay, I'll take your pedantic bait. I agree, we have advanced past using physical units due to the nature our societies have progressed technologically. However each unit of currency in existence is a unit of debt, it is printed out of thin air, backed by nothing and has interest owed to the central banks for the privilege of flicking that digit on the computer. Once we eradicate that fundamental basis of debt-based 'money' from the outset we can then start to have an economy whereby 'money' is created not for the purpose of enriching a select few at the top of the pyramid but as an interest-free tool in which to conduct a global economy and trade.

 

I'm not being pedantic, or laying bait, I'm asking you what you mean because I don't understand what you're saying. You've still not answered the question, what is 'real money'? You say what you think money is today, a unit of debt. What's the alternative, what should money be a unit of if not debt? What specifically is wrong with the current system of money and how would you make it more 'real'?

[Nom de plume]

Have you noted that now the deal is done in Cyprus, we are hearing **** all more about it ... like the daily Spanish, Italian & Greek riots that are taking place?

 

Until we move on to the next crisis and jump on that ...

 

By the way, I'm with Lxxx ... let Govts run their own printing presses. Imagine the hits ordered on global politicians if it ever became even thinkable.

 

 

[Cambon]

]I think you missed my point. Manx money is not real money, sterling is.

 

Without getting into the Looney Tunes debate that has become this thread...you can't put £1 Million of Manx notes into a UK bank and earn interest on it, as the bank won't accept the Manx notes. But IOM treasury can keep back a couple of £Million in UK notes and then bank them, then issue the equivalent Manx money instead for local circulation, and still earn interest on the same amount in a UK bank - at the same time.

 

Of course if people leave they can't take the Manx money with them, we have to reimburse the Manx money with UK money, taking it out of a UK bank to give them.

No. I think you missed my point. As you said, Manx Money is issued based on deposits in the uk in Sterling. This is called a bonded arrangement, where the deposit is the bond. uk money is also based on bonded arrangements where the uk government sell bonds (known as gilts) to private institutions in order to generate funds to keep the country going. The only difference is that the in the uk the Bank of England can print cash in order to buy back bonds (what most people call qualtative easing, but is actually called asset purchasing). What most people have not fathomed yet is that by buying back bonds, they are actually buying back your own debt. This could simply be cancelled out, but the Bank of England have not done that...yet.

 

If you have an account in a any bank in the uk, and and go in with Manx notes to deposit, not one will turn you away. They will simply exchange the amount into your desired currency and make a deposit into your account. The Manx notes will be exchanged with IOMG for the sterling equivalent, which the uk bank will then use or exchange to whatever currency suits the bank best at the time. The only thing they will not accept is IOM change.

[Lxxx]

I wondered how long it would be before they asked for real money in return for printing them some of the funny rubbish.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22106187

[Cambon]

Yep, read about that on Keiser's site

[Cambon]

Maybe the Cypriot government should take out a loan secured by the gold from the bank of cyprus. The bank can then use western style fractional reserve banking multiples to create several billion euros, lend that to the bank of portugal, who can use similar multipliers and lend it to Spain, who can use the multipliers, lend it to Ireland who can use multipliers, lend it to Italy who can use multipliers and with the resultant trillions buy pay off all their debts!

[Lxxx]

Maybe the Cypriot government should take out a loan secured by the gold from the bank of cyprus. The bank can then use western style fractional reserve banking multiples to create several billion euros, lend that to the bank of portugal, who can use similar multipliers and lend it to Spain, who can use the multipliers, lend it to Ireland who can use multipliers, lend it to Italy who can use multipliers and with the resultant trillions buy pay off all their debts!

Then use all the collateral to mine Bitcoins and rule the world. Err....