Baroness Margaret Thatcher Has Died

[Thomas Jefferson]

Au contraire, TJ, it is highly relevant when talking about the prevailing culture.

 

The unions had to be brought to heel, but to preserve the industries, not kill them. If we still had the primary industries that were lost we would be in better shape now.

What do you mean, "we"? Which Manx industry was killed?

[P.K.]

 

The thing to remember is that PM's should be there for the ENTIRE NATION. Not just those who vote for them....

Completely agree but it never happens no matter who is in power.

 

To me Thatcher was the first who blatantly sacrificed communities to stay in power. Power for power's sake. As Maj Gen Julian Thompson knows only too well after being ordered to attack Goose Green that had no military value whatsoever.

 

According to tory doctrine give loads to the rich and the poor will benefit from a "trickle down" effect.

 

Unfortunately as we know what "trickle" there is invariably goes in an upward direction.....

[woody2]

only 2 things ever frightened Maggie, one was the new age travelers which ended at the Battle of the Beanfield and two the rave movement, i was part of both,

 

in london already next Wednesday and on the strand have not made my mind up yet if i will stick my head out of the door

[Albert Tatlock]

only 2 things ever frightened Maggie, one was the new age travelers which ended at the Battle of the Beanfield and two the rave movement, i was part of both,

 

in london already next Wednesday and on the strand have not made my mind up yet if i will stick my head out of the door

Compromise. Just stick two fingers out of the door.

[ballaughbiker]

To me Thatcher was the first who blatantly sacrificed communities to stay in power

Some would say those communities committed hari-kari rather than being sacrificed. Whilst I still feel sorry for ordinary decent people whose lives were as a result affected, it is an undeniable fact that some chose to follow a leader hell bent on government downfall. The strike was illegal and undemocratic (go on LDV, you know you want to....) and I personally know a few who didn't want to strike but had to or suffer extreme intimidation from their fellow workers. These same people then lost everything but those honest enough now acknowledge they contributed to the situation they found themselves in. Of course, when things go wrong, we are all inclined to want to find a scapegoat and blame someone else.

 

the rich and the poor

Ah, how convenient. There are just two factions are there? Define them. Which are you? Whilst they are useful concepts for anyone determined to introduce polarisation into a discussion, the vast majority of people are neither. However, like anything else, we can all cherry pick examples to "disprove" this view. Don't take this opinion as dismissing the considerable need of those who are really struggling at the moment through no fault of their own. Our welfare state is the envy of the world and so it should be. Long may it continue.

 

That all said, I find the idea of a state funeral for such a divisive leader quite distasteful and unnecessary. What ever are the organisers thinking of? Whatever bad 'she' did (and I agree the government she led were responsible for many awful decisions ) I still believe it is also distasteful for her enemies to find some sort of glory in her death (or anyone's death for that matter). Protesting would also seem completely pointless unless you are fulfilling your need to protest about anything that conveniently presents itself.

 

I am no Thatcher supporter and do not remember those years with rose tinted specs. Neither do I selectively remember just the bad bits because it supports a certain cause. I acknowledge that her government did some bad things and some good things. Despite being a trade unionist, taking King Arthur out was, on balance, a good thing although many lost their jobs as a direct result which is most regrettable however many, given time, would have lost them anyway

[Chinahand]

... I would like to find out what Major General Julian Thompson CB OBE has to say about her.

 

He was the man on the ground in charge of the troops in the Falklands. He was ordered to attack Goose Green for essentially political reasons as there were no strategic military ones. He was so disgusted that his men would die obeying his orders for posturing politicians that he announced prior to the battle that he would win the islands back for the politicians and then he would leave the service.

 

So when they held "Thatchers victory parade" the man who had actually done the business of leading the troops to attain their objective had already left the service and was no-where to be seen.....

I'm a little sceptical about your interpretation of history here PK. If you can back it up I'd be interested.

 

I agree the attack on Goose Green was controversial, but my understanding is that it was not as a result of political interference from Maggie - rather it was due to there not been clear seniority from the commanders in the field and so it was Admiral Fieldhouse in London High Command who altered Thompson's plan to "raid" Goose Green, to "eliminate" it. Link

 

On what Thompson thought of Maggie - well he is on record as saying: "we adored her and would have done anything for her. In all my years' of service, I have never seen anything like it ... we all loved her for her calmness ... her enthusiasm, and dare one say it, because she is an extremely handsome lady.

 

And on news of her death he said: "It's sad because I thought she was a great lady and probably the greatest Prime Minister we've had since Churchill."

 

He also didn't resign his service after the Falkland's War - he stayed on this 1986, four years later! Link

 

He also attended celebration dinners after the War with Maggie describing the occasion as his outstanding memory of her. Link

 

I realize this will be all very inconvenient to your reputation as MF's military historian, and I wonder what evidence you have to refute General Thompson's own words?!

[Chris C]

I see the chairman of Wigan & Reading are calling for a minutes silence before their premier league games this weekend. Extremely optimistic I would say

[Lonan3]

I see the chairman of Wigan & Reading are calling for a minutes silence before their premier league games this weekend. Extremely optimistic I would say

Sometimes you have a minute of silence - sometimes a minute of applause - maybe a minute of constant booing?

[Albert Tatlock]

I see the chairman of Wigan & Reading are calling for a minutes silence before their premier league games this weekend. Extremely optimistic I would say

That's probably because both teams are likely to be relegated.

 

Good luck on that one if it's for Thatcher.

[Cambon]

She did what had to be done. During the 1970s, uk was producing shite cars at premium prices, subsidised by the tax payer. They were spending twice as much mining coal as the stuff was worth, subsidised by the tax payer. On top of this, the people producing this shite wanted massive wage increases for doing it. It had to stop.

 

I remember miners being offered work at different mines 20 miles away from home, but they would not do it because it meant travelling or moving. That did not stop them travelling to be flying pickets though. I found this quite unbelievable. I moved four times in just over a year in order to keep working, I even changed countries. 3M unemployed? Hmm. I have my doubts. If you were willing to travel, there was plenty of work. That I know. The real problem was similar to the problem these days in uk. Apathy. These days immigrants are blamed. Truth is these days they are doing the jobs benefits scroungers refuse to.

[Albert Tatlock]

Lots of people seem to be remembering just the Miners and other unions v Thatcher.

 

It was a much more complex era than that, with everything from 'Big Bang' and short-termism, to grabbing money when it was around, selling the family silver and setting the population up for endlessly spiraling utility costs, and spending 5% on R&D compared to our competitors. It was also the time that accountants got too much power in companies, and engineers and scientists were not listened to, and subsequently, all too many major competitors have overtaken the UK.

 

Thatcher some kind of hero? This is what happens when the 'victors write the history' I suppose.

 

Few won in the end in the UK, except those with grasping hands IMO. It was the first generation to sell out it's children and grandchildren, with the winners of that era learning to do a far better job of selling out future generations in 2008.

 

 

.

[ballaughbiker]

Of course there was more too her reign than the strike Albert. However the miners had brought down the properly (note avoiding the d word) elected Heath government and were intent on doing the same with Thatcher with a quite preposterous wage demand followed by a very damaging strike with no ballot when this was properly turned down. It therefore became a somewhat pivotal point. However coal mining is also a good example of many of the industries that eventually went to the wall. Out of date, hugely subsidised and simply not viable despite it keeping thousand of decent hardworking individuals in a job plus all the businesses their wages supported. She wan't having any of that and I agree with her on that to a point. Whilst a golden opportunity was missed by not re-investing, don't assume all would have been well if Scargill had been victorious. Those knackered industries with all those jobs could have only continued long-term by a mad mechanism similar to that used in the former GDR whom I recall always boasted full employment.

 

She was a heroine in some ways and an absolute disaster in others yet the eventual Labour government changed not a lot and imo they are therefore jointly responsible for 2008. Yes the family silver was sold and it shouldn't have been just like Broon's gold sale. Neither should public housing have been sold although it did benefit a lot of ordinary people rather than the aforementioned so-called "rich". Of course everything is crystal clear with hindsight and knowing which horses eventually lost the race. Any fool can place a bet knowing that.

[The Old Git]

During the 1970s, uk was producing shite cars at premium prices, subsidised by the tax payer.

 

Of which my parent's Morris Marina 1.8 TC Coupe was a prime example. Jeez, that was a troublesome car and had various "fixes" applied by the garage ovto try to sort it.

 

Just reading the Wikipedia article on it now, it contains the wonderful line - "While the BL workers gradually eroded their own employment"

[CrossRoss]

 

'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead' could reach number one following Margaret Thatcher's death

 

Lady Thatcher’s death could propel The Wizard Of Oz track "Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead to the top of the charts.

Those who saw her death as a cause for celebration have prompted a download surge for the track.

Within 24 hours of the former Prime Minister’s death, the song had risen to number 9 in the iTunes best-sellers chart. It reached number 2 on the Amazon singles download chart.

 

The Indie : http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead-could-reach-number-one-following-margaret-thatchers-death-8566042.html

 

Apparently #9 in the charts

Thatcher's regime relied upon LIES and kiddie fiddlers.

 

Now that she is dead the truth will come out as it has for Jimmy Savile.

 

I wish the fools who want to give her a minute's silence the best of luck but I shall be singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" at the top of my lungs.

[Matt Bawden]

I read on BBC News online that Tony Blair has said that the celebratory parties for MT's death were in "pretty poor taste" and that regardless of who the dead person is they deserve respect". The man is an idiot, so he's saying that Pol Pot or Ceausescu were worthy of respect, I beg to differ.

 

I will say this though, I agree that the celebrations are in poor taste, I disliked the woman and didn't/don't agree with many of her policies, however, she is hardly on a par with a tyrannical dictator responsible for thousands of deaths of her own country-people as part of a totalitarian regime.