Baroness Margaret Thatcher Has Died

[Chinahand]

Margaret Thatcher's reforms put the UK through massive turmoil and division.

While heavy industry was, undoubtedly, declining, the Thatcher government's decision to move as much as possible into the free market and to privatise undoubtedly exacerbated the decline.

 

France, on the other hand, was run by the (semi) socialist Francois Mitterand at more or less the same time. His tenure began in 1981, two years after Thatcher. But he lasted in office till 1995, five years after Thatcher.

He, and subsequent French governments, went along enthusiastically with the EU's social chapter and the sort of thing that Thatcher and Major said restricted the economy. Blair and Brown largely followed suit.

 

The French also went into the Euro, which the Thatcherites said and continue to say would stunt growth and the nimble British economy.

 

While the British "reformed" trade unions, the French unions are still militant and strong.

 

While the British stopped pouring money into their state industries, the French continued. Loss-making Renault got far more money than British Leyland ever got, for example, and which company is still making cars and employing more than 100,000 people?

 

Now the French work shorter hours, have marginally longer life expectancy and a health service that's said to be the best in the world.

 

So, when you look at the figures, it does make you wonder what the Thatcher revolution actually achieved.

 

UK population: 62,641,000 (World Bank)

France population: 65,436,552 (World Bank)

UK GDP: $2.43 Trillion (World Bank)

France GDP: $2.77 Trillion (World Bank).

Erm In Fact ...

 

You can't infer a trend from a single point!

 

In 1979 the UK's income per capita was the equivalent of $18,532*, France's was $20,102.

 

In 2011 the UK's income per capita was the equivalent of $31,330, France's was $30,235.

 

Average growth in real per capita income in the UK since 1979 - 1.65%. In France 1.28% - don't forget you must add on inflation to this figure to get the nominal growth.

 

If a Brit had been receiving the equivalent of $100 in 1979 - they would have been receiving $169 in 2011.

 

A Frenchman receiving $100 in 1979, would only be receiving $150 in 2011.

 

Now lets not pretend that France has not gone through loads of strikes, social and racial tension between 1979 and now. Was what Mrs Thatcher put the UK through worth gaining that extra growth? It is debateable. But the UK has outperformed France economically since 1979 - and by quite a lot. It started off 8% poorer and ended 4% richer.

 

That isn't to be sniffed at. And as I've said, I don't think France is an exemplar of racial and industrial harmony compared to the UK.

 

Figures from Gapminder

 

 

All figures are adjusted to take account of inflation etc.

[GD4ELI]

 

Yes the country is in a fine position now...errrr

 

But at least the unions aren't in control : ) I've been a union member all my working life but it was obvious their power was getting out of control. I read somewhere than in January 1979 there were nearly as many workers on strike as in the 1926 General Strike. Don't tell me this type of action had no consequence for the future of our industries. Yep, all would have been well it only Sunny Jim had retained power. My ass.

Spot on - remember the three-day week? MT put Britain back on the path it should have been, far too many blinkered people forget the mess labour left behind in 1979 and oddly enough in 2010.

[Matt Bawden]

She took my damn milk away from me

[SafeAsMilk]

Here we go with the litany of abuse and insults about a dead woman...

 

 

 

And she deserves every last bit of it.

 

If there's any justice, Old Nick will have kept a seat warm for her and she, in turn, will do so for her delightful son. Street party anyone?

[GD4ELI]

 

And an excellent scientist before entering politics, responsible for the Mr. Whippy style of ice cream.

 

Tom Carvel invented that

<cough>

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-helped-invent-soft-serve-ice-cream/274767/

[asitis]

The one thing she did have were convictions and beliefs and the courage to implement them and to stand up and say so. Now we have politicians with no beliefs no convictions ( except criminal) and mealy mouthed apologists the lot of them. Wish we had more MT's on both sides of the house !

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LOST LOGIN:

It is a difficult one. I can not stand the woman, I was an adult during her conservative governments, but generally I would not bitch or abuse somebody who has just died. However if people are going to praise her and describe her as magnificent then I think it is only fair that those who have a contrary view have their say.

 

Depends on why you can't stand her. If you think she was a bad person then there is no reason why respect should be given now she is dead. It doesn't matter whether someone has died or not. Talk about her just in the same manner as if she were alive.

 

Would you think it wrong if people said 'good riddance' about Franco, Stalin, the German Nazis, Pinochet, etc.?

[woody2]

 

 

And an excellent scientist before entering politics, responsible for the Mr. Whippy style of ice cream.

 

Tom Carvel invented that

<cough>

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-helped-invent-soft-serve-ice-cream/274767/

http://www.carvel.com/about-us/history

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mr_Whippy&redirect=no

[Thomas Jefferson]

Thank you, Mrs Thatcher, for all your tireless hard work in restoring Britain's place in the world as a thriving economy.

[Lost Login]

In my experience those who actually lived through the Thatcher era absolutely loathe her because they witnessed first hand all the misery and suffering she caused. I suspect that those who didn't are the ones who think throwing whole communities on the dole to wither on the vine was the right thing for a NATIONAL (sic) leader to do.

 

 

Not 100% correct but the fact that she was much more universally admired outside the UK than within says much.

 

As I have said she did some things that needed doing but the fact that she polarises opinion is probably the most illustrative point. A good leader should have been far more inclusive, If you were part of her favourites then great, if not you were screwed. Basically Thatcher and the conservatives were probably a great government if you were of the middle or professional clases living in London and the South East.

 

I remember reading copies of a couple of letters my grandfather had written to Thatcher. The first was when she was elected and it was basically the first time he had ever voted for the Conservatives. The second was I think around the time of her second election. The first was stating he had never voted Tory before and full of hope, the second that he felt totally betrayed.

 

People dislike Blair and I understand why but I always felt he did what he thought was correct for the UK as a whole, even if wrong. I always thought Thatcher purely acted in favour of her own and happy to crush those who did not agree with no thought for the consequences.

[Lost Login]

Thank you, Mrs Thatcher, for all your tireless hard work in restoring Britain's place in the world as a thriving economy.

 

The best satirical post of the day!

[Lost Login]

LOST LOGIN:

It is a difficult one. I can not stand the woman, I was an adult during her conservative governments, but generally I would not bitch or abuse somebody who has just died. However if people are going to praise her and describe her as magnificent then I think it is only fair that those who have a contrary view have their say.

 

Depends on why you can't stand her. If you think she was a bad person then there is no reason why respect should be given now she is dead. It doesn't matter whether someone has died or not. Talk about her just in the same manner as if she were alive.

 

Would you think it wrong if people said 'good riddance' about Franco, Stalin, the German Nazis, Pinochet, etc.?

I did say I would not generally bitch or abuse somebody who had just died and I stand by that. There is no need. But that does not mean you should not be honest and not say derogative things if you believe them to be correct.

[ballaughbiker]

Not 100% correct

She might have given the final push to thousands of decent ordinary people and their communities but their union leaders chose to take them to the cliff edge where one small push was all that was needed to ensure industrial collapse. UK plc was about as uncompetitive as you could get with a powerful emerging far east just waiting for a chance.

 

As for comparisons with France, I was only watching the french news at lunchtime and they showed a map of all the current strikes. There wasn't much of the country unaffected. France has huge problems at the moment and is trying to tax its way out of trouble.

[quilp]

She's only been in hell for 12 hours and already she's closed 3 furnaces....

As far as that Mr Whippy thing goes, Thatch was responsible only for increasing the amount of air manufacturers could pump into it....

[P.K.]

She might have given the final push to thousands of decent ordinary people and their communities but their union leaders chose to take them to the cliff edge where one small push was all that was needed to ensure industrial collapse. UK plc was about as uncompetitive as you could get with a powerful emerging far east just waiting for a chance.

 

 

 

As for comparisons with France, I was only watching the french news at lunchtime and they showed a map of all the current strikes. there wasn't much of the country unaffected.

 

Strange but true the government of the day have a duty of care to ALL of their citizens.

 

Not just already well-off tory voters....