Lonan3 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Really? The owner and molester of slaves was a great man? More of a say great things but not do them kinda guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Really? The owner and molester of slaves was a great man? More of a say great things but not do them kinda guy... Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do. Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Really? The owner and molester of slaves was a great man? More of a say great things but not do them kinda guy... Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. Oh the irony.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. Oh the irony.... Ooooooh, someone's been listening to Alanis Morissette and learning new words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Really? The owner and molester of slaves was a great man? More of a say great things but not do them kinda guy... Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. So he didn't own slaves, and he didn't sire children from multiple slaves? Hmmm maybe history is wrong and you're the one that right....better start telling everyone else how their wrong and you're the "authority" on Thomas Jefferson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. Oh the irony.... Ooooooh, someone's been listening to Alanis Morissette and learning new words. Someone doesn't understand irony (and its not Quilip). Just type "The truth about Thomas Jefferson". He was a hypocrite, and by all accounts no different than any modern day neo-con Republican 1%er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sally Hemings was not "molested", it was consensual, and think for moment what would happen to lifelong slaves released in a pre-industrial economy. They'd be back on the plantations but with less rights as indentured wage slaves. Jefferson was protecting them. Get a clue. I prefer the simplicity of the remark by slavery abolitionist Moncure Conway about Jefferson: Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do. Source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Sk3zpZNM It's very easy to insult this great man in hindsight, especially when you're an idiot who ignores the fact that progress is a step by step process, but he was a true visionary and I am thankful for what he did. Really? The owner and molester of slaves was a great man? More of a say great things but not do them kinda guy... Do some research before spouting lies about one of the greatest men of the modern era. So he didn't own slaves, and he didn't sire children from multiple slaves? Hmmm maybe history is wrong and you're the one that right....better start telling everyone else how their wrong and you're the "authority" on Thomas Jefferson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sally Hemings was not "molested", it was consensual, and think for moment what would happen to lifelong slaves released in a pre-industrial economy. They'd be back on the plantations but with less rights as indentured wage slaves. Jefferson was protecting them. Get a clue. Jefferson was a slave owner, owning at times hundreds of slaves. He only freed a handful of slaves.[131] Although Jefferson's name had been associated with the anti-slavery cause during the early 1770s in the Virginia legislature, Jefferson viewed slavery as a "Southern way of life", similar to mainstream Greek and antiquity societies. In agreement with the Southern slave society, Jefferson believed that slavery served to protect blacks, whom he viewed as inferior or incapable of taking care of themselves.[132] Historians such as Peter Kolchin and Ira Berlin have noted that by Jefferson's time, Virginia and other southern colonies had become "slave societies," in which slavery was the main mode of labor production and the slaveholding class held the political power. Jefferson claimed in 1777 and 1778 to have authored bills that would have emancipated slaves, liberated the children of slaves, and deported them from the colonies. Jefferson claimed to have withdrawn the legislation and said the "public mind" would not be able to accept emancipation at this time. But, there is no evidence from Jefferson's collective writings that he authored such legislation.[20] Jefferson had opportunities to disassociate himself from slavery. In 1782 after the American Revolution, Virginia passed a law making manumission by the slave owner legal and more easily accomplished, and the manumission rate rose across the Upper South in other states as well. Northern states passed various emancipation plans. Yet, Jefferson's actions did not keep up with those of the antislavery advocates.[5] On September 15, 1793, Thomas Jefferson agreed in writing to free James Hemings, his mixed-race slave who had served him as chef since their time in Paris, after the slave had trained his younger brother Peter as a replacement chef. Jefferson finally freed James Hemings in February 1796. According to one historian, Jefferson's manumission was not generous; he said the document "undermines any notion of benevolence."[133] With freedom, Hemings worked in Philadelphia and traveled to France.[134] About the same time, in 1794 Jefferson allowed James' older brother Robert Hemings to buy his freedom. These were the only two slaves Jefferson freed by manumission in his lifetime. (They were both brothers of Sally Hemings], believed to be Jefferson's concubine.) By contrast, so many other slaveholders in Virginia freed slaves in the first two decades after the Revolution that the proportion of free blacks in Virginia compared to the total black population rose from less than one percent in 1790 to 7.2 percent in 1810.[135] By that time, three-quarters of the slaves in Delaware had been freed, and a high proportion of slaves in Maryland.[135] Historians use Jefferson's correspondence with Edward Coles as an example of his anti-slavery views. Coles believed Jefferson would help him with his plan to free his slaves, and wrote to Jefferson about it in 1814. In Jefferson's response, the first part of the letter seemed to support Coles' plan and the anti-slavery movement, but further on, the former president discouraged Coles from emancipating his slaves. He wrote: “ The laws do not permit us to turn them loose, if that were for their good: and to commute them for other property is to commit them to those whose usage of them we cannot control. I hope then, my dear sir, you will reconcile yourself to your country and its unfortunate condition; that you will not lessen its stock of sound disposition by withdrawing your portion from the mass. ” [136] Jefferson claimed to want to protect slaves from ill usage and to employ them in reasonable labor, though at the same time he insisted that Coles should not free his slaves. “ But in the mean time are you right in abandoning this property, and your country with it? I think not. My opinion has ever been that, until more can be done for them, we should endeavor, with those whom fortune has thrown on our hands, to feed and clothe them well, protect them from all ill usage, require such reasonable labor only as is performed voluntarily by freemen, & be led by no repugnancies to abdicate them, and our duties to them. ” (Note: Coles took his slaves to present-day Illinois, a free territory, where he freed them and gave them land purchased for their use, 160 acres to each head of household. He also helped provide employment for them to get started in freedom)[136] Jefferson inherited slaves as a child, and owned slaves the rest of his life.[2] The historian Herbert E. Sloan says that Jefferson's debt prevented his freeing his slaves,[137] but Finkelman says that freeing slaves was "not even a mildly important goal" of Jefferson, who preferred to spend lavishly on luxury goods like wine and French chairs.[138] As was typical of planters, Jefferson made decisions about breaking up families when he gave slaves to his sisters and daughters as wedding presents. He considered children over the age of 10 or 12, when they began working on the plantation, as ready to leave their families.[139] For instance, he gave the 14-year-old Betsy Hemmings, a mixed-race slave, and 30 other slaves to his daughter Mary Jefferson Eppes and her husband on the occasion of her marriage.[140] From 1784-1794, he gave away or sold 161 slaves from Monticello.[139] Isaac Jefferson learned tinsmithing and nailmaking while held as a slave by Jefferson. Born into slavery in 1775, in 1847 he was interviewed as a free man by the author and historian Charles Campbell. The material remained unpublished until 1951 when Raymond Logan edited it into Memoirs of a Monticello Slave.[141] Isaac Jefferson's account provided valuable details to historians about daily life and family relationships at Monticello.[142][143] Additional narratives, published by former Monticello slaves in 1873, are those of Madison Hemings (who stated he and his siblings were Thomas Jefferson's children by Sally Hemings), and Israel Jefferson, who confirmed Madison's account. According to the historian Stephen Ambrose: "Jefferson, like all slaveholders and many others, regarded Negroes as inferior, childlike, untrustworthy and, of course, as property."[144] He believed they were inferior to whites in reasoning, mathematical comprehension, and imagination. Jefferson thought these "differences" were "fixed in nature" and was not dependent on their freedom or education.[33] He thought such differences created "innate inferiority of Blacks compared to Whites". In Notes on the State of Virginia, Jefferson claimed that blacks prefer the beauty of whites over other blacks, and cited "the preferences of the Orangutan for the black woman over those of his own species".[145] Jefferson did not believe that African Americans could live in American society as free people together with whites.[146] For a long-term solution, he thought that slaves should be freed after reaching maturity and having repaid their owner's investment; afterward, he thought they should be sent to African colonies in what he considered "repatriation", despite their being American-born. Otherwise, he thought the presence of free blacks would encourage a violent uprising by slaves' looking for freedom.[147] Jefferson expressed his fear of slave rebellion: "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other."[148] In 1809, he wrote to Abbé Grégoire, whose book argued against Jefferson's claims of black inferiority in Notes on the State of Virginia. Jefferson said blacks had "respectable intelligence", but did not alter his views.[113][149] In August 1814 the planter Edward Coles and Jefferson corresponded about Coles' ideas on emancipation. Jefferson urged Coles not to free his slaves, but the younger man took all his slaves to the Illinois and freed them, providing them with land for farms Jefferson was definately a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of anti-slave person. I especially like the part where he would keep slave families together. Not out of some sort of kindness, but because families together are less likely to run, less likely to "play up" and are more likely to breed. As Jefferson said "a female that produces every two years is worth more than the best man in the field"... 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Lonan3 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 In the 1790s, as Jefferson was mortgaging his slaves to build Monticello, George Washington was trying to scrape together financing for an emancipation at Mount Vernon, which he finally ordered in his will. He proved that emancipation was not only possible, but practical, and he overturned all the Jeffersonian rationalizations. Jefferson insisted that a multiracial society with free black people was impossible, but Washington did not think so. Never did Washington suggest that blacks were inferior or that they should be exiled. It is curious that we accept Jefferson as the moral standard of the founders’ era, not Washington. Perhaps it is because the Father of his Country left a somewhat troubling legacy: His emancipation of his slaves stands as not a tribute but a rebuke to his era, and to the prevaricators and profiteers of the future, and declares that if you claim to have principles, you must live by them. After Jefferson’s death in 1826, the families of Jefferson’s most devoted servants were split apart. Onto the auction block went Caroline Hughes, the 9-year-old daughter of Jefferson’s gardener Wormley Hughes. One family was divided up among eight different buyers, another family among seven buyers. Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Little-Known-Dark-Side-of-Thomas-Jefferson-169780996.html#ixzz2Smhnv6o5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 From C-Span's Washington Journal: DOJ Report Says Dramatic Drop In Gun Violence Since 1993 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJTTv0OvhAs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-new-orleans-shooting-20130512,0,3110139.story Mother's Day. Parade. 19 injured. But apparently there isn't a gun problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-new-orleans-shooting-20130512,0,3110139.story Mother's Day. Parade. 19 injured. But apparently there isn't a gun problem. Yup Mdo . But it seems the answer to gun crime is more guns. It's the ultimate deterrence. Apparently..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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