28 Days Later - Coronavirus

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Should we not be more worried about H7N9.

 

I'm more concerned about R2D2, he comes across all cute an' all but he's got lasers

Not to mention his mate C-3PO another dodgey one....

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Never ceases to amaze me how vunerable as a species we are, to things only visible through a microscope. It does appear at times that our physical wellbeing owes as much to our intelligence as it does our bodily strengths.

[Chinahand]

Yes, we did die younger, and more often, but did the species not continue?

That's the only point I'm making - my understanding is that we are currently at a sweet spot, because science has enabled us to find medicines which give us an unrivalled ability to fight off microbes due to antibiotics etc.

 

That advantage is rapidly disappearing due to the evolution of antibiotic resistance.

 

The result will be increased mortality as natural selection removes from the gene pool those genomes which have thrived under the advantages these medicines gave.

 

Don't forget the world's population has something like tripled since the 1930s.

 

It won't be the end of humanity of a species - medical science will keep advancing etc. but my understanding is that it is highly likely that death rates from resistant microbes will increase.

 

I suppose the question is by how much: the UK's chief medical officers worries it will be significant - link.

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Considering we've managed for 10,000 years, with modern medicine turning from Witchcraft only a century or two ago, I think the human body should be credited with some resilience.

Look at how all other wildlife survives too. Our bodies are a harmony of micro-organisms anyway, it's just the rogue ones that cause problems.

Yes, we did die younger, and more often, but did the species not continue?

 

Genetically, we were never designed to live beyond our offspring becoming adults. We hit our sexual peak as we become adults, after that, it's all downhill. From partying hard to wandering around in rustle-free plastic underwear for incontinence, times really do change...

I agree. That same witchcraft approach was in itself an intelligent response nevertheless, avoidance etc;. And has ultimately ensured our survival allowing us to evolve just as disease has. Pity the poor fly who still keeps falling into the pitcher plant trap.

[Lonan3]

Yes, we did die younger, and more often, but did the species not continue?

To be honest, I think most people only ever died once.

[wrighty]

Wrighty, are you really not worried about the impact of anti-biotic resistance on the general population as opposed to those who are immuno-compromised?

 

My understanding is that prior to antibiotics bacterial infections would regularly kill otherwise strong and healthy people. Regularly a person's immune system was not robust enough to fight off such microbes and antibiotics was a primary cause of stopping deaths from opportunistic infections caused by scratches etc.

 

The more I've read about microbes the more I've come to respect them - their ability to evolve and overcome the body's natural defences to me seem formidable and my understanding is that we live in a very lucky time where antibiotics are effective. It is close to an evolutionary inevitability that this will end and once again microbes will be able multiply only checked by our natural defences.

 

My understanding is once antibiotics become ineffective there will be significantly higher death rates - such bugs are currently only able to thrive in hospitals - soon the wild type microbe will, through some recombination, also gain the resistance, with what i understand will be tragic consequences.

 

Or do you disagree?

No I'm not particularly worried about the impact of antibiotic resistance on the general population. There seems to be a popular misunderstanding that resistance equals virulence - it doesn't. So while serious infections may become impossible to treat, it doesn't mean that we'll be getting more of them. As I pointed out, most of the bacteria that cause serious infections are all around us, and most of us aren't getting ill and needing antibiotics on a regular basis.

 

I'm sure there will be an increased death rate from certain infections, but most of us will still be dying from cancer, heart disease, stroke etc.

[Chinahand]

Thought this was an interesting article on antibiotic resistance from Nature.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think this is all very worrying. We have resistance to antibiotics and then the new scepticism surrounding immunisation. I think we are likely to face big problems in the not too distant future.

 

Though with immunisation the problems caused by immunisation scares has led to stupid and irresponsible behaviour due to ignorance, it is inevitable that an antibiotic will become useless, isn't it? Or is it down to mismanagement?

 

To be clearer on that, take pencillin. If that drug was discovered now and was used properly by taking the drugs throughout the course of infection, would resistance still emerge?

 

(Of course, I am aware of irresponsibility of how antibiotics in general are used/abused. It just means that new antibiotics don't last long use as effective agents and we end up with nothing)

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I do find it very worrying that there are still concerns by parents about getting vaccinated too. Sorry to bang on about it, but I think it is such an important issue that really needs addressing, but people have got it so wrong when it comes to dealing with it responsibly. You hear about measles outbreaks in Wales and London and I really do wonder how stupid we are when we have the technology and means to protect people from such things.

But how do you go about educating? Of course, the public are going to be sceptical of anything coming from government, as their thinking has largely come from sources that make out the government is poisoning their kids. Is it something that medical academics need to do?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

That's right. And not just unwell, but I didn't realise until relatively recently all the terrible secondary conditions that people can get from measles and mumps.

[ballaughbiker]

Aye, one of those terrible secondary conditions is death. Doesn't get much worse than that.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Haha. Well yes, but I meant the less common and worst complications of these diseases, such as Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from mild and less serious complications such as diarrhea to more serious ones such as pneumonia,^[7]otitis media,^[8] acute encephalitis (and very rarely SSPE – subacute sclerosing panencephalitis),^[9] and corneal ulceration (leading to corneal scarring).^[10] Complications are usually more severe in adults who catch the virus.^[11] The death rate in the 1920s was around 30% for measles pneumonia.^[12] (this is from Wikipedia)

[Chinahand]

Resurrecting this thread as a place to post about antibiotic resistance etc.

Interesting and worrying article about antibiotic resistance in India. Link

A deadly epidemic that could have global implications is quietly sweeping India, and among its many victims are tens of thousands of newborns dying because once-miraculous cures no longer work.

These infants are born with bacterial infections that are resistant to most known antibiotics, and more than 58,000 died last year as a result, a recent study found.

... In visits to neonatal intensive care wards in five Indian states, doctors reported being overwhelmed by such cases.

“Five years ago, we almost never saw these kinds of infections,” said Dr. Neelam Kler, chairwoman of the department of neonatology at New Delhi’s Sir Ganga Ram Hospital, one of India’s most prestigious private hospitals. “Now, close to 100 percent of the babies referred to us have multidrug resistant infections. It’s scary.”

These babies are part of a disquieting outbreak. A growing chorus of researchers say the evidence is now overwhelming that a significant share of the bacteria present in India — in its water, sewage, animals, soil and even its mothers — are immune to nearly all antibiotics.

Newborns are particularly vulnerable because their immune systems are fragile, leaving little time for doctors to find a drug that works. But everyone is at risk. Uppalapu Shrinivas, one of India’s most famous musicians, died Sept. 19 at age 45 because of an infection that doctors could not cure.

Edited to add: India and other developing nations are by no means alone in threatening the future of antibiotics. Overuse of the drugs in chicken, hog and cattle farms in the United States has led to the rise of resistant strains there, and research has shown that as much as half of antibiotic prescriptions in the United States are unnecessary.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated last year that two million people are sickened by resistant bacteria every year in the United States and 23,000 die as a result.

[mojomonkey]

Jesus Chinahand, CrossRoss will have a field day with this one!

[woolley]

"All gotta die of something." As a consultant at Nobles told an acquaintance of mine after informing him he had 6 months to live with terminal cancer.