Rog Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 i stillcant beleive they think that forcing a charge of £85 quid down everybodies throats will be accepted i can foresee wholescale riots in the implementation of this card what would you do if you work minimum wage? you need to pay out £85 for yourself then the same again for your wife/husband..... that could be as much as your weekly wage after tax there is only one possible response to that....... there are already people on the street that are complaining about this or is the government being really clever? saying we have to pay £85 then when everybody kicks off they say no they will be free suddenly everybody stops complaining and the card is introduced without a fuss over loss of civil liberties???? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see on the News the price is now around £98 as they forgot to add VAT (!) but that apart there will no doubt be discounts if people are on Supplementry Benefits and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangfire Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 sorry to rant just about the cost but many of my friends are still across, on near minimum wage and working really hard just to get by an extra 2x£98 charge is basically a weekly wage to some of them how can we justify this cost? and they aint on benefits, just grafters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Don’t be too sure. Already data from Supermarket ‘loyalty cards’ are used by amongst other government departments the treasury and are ‘data mined’ to produce information about spending habits of populations and so extrapolate social groups within geographical areas and so forth and that’s just for starters. Any yet I still have to fill in average earnings survey forms (they made it compulsary a while ago) because they claim data protection issues stop them using the information from the T14 forms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Cardboard Box Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Once they have the bill amended considerably because of the opposition, it will NOT be compulsory to carry them, and they will be free. The cost of passports may go up a lot to compensate, but that's what you get for being a jetsetter. And news just in, Rog was a GPO telephone engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 And news just in, Rog was a GPO telephone engineer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL! No Rog wasn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Why can't they just gradually add biometrics to your passport and issue everyone with one? That way when you need to prove your ID you can. I know it would be a little more expensive than the normal pasport but it would be cheaper than 2 documents. No way do I want ID cards that you have to carry at all times... Please tell me what crime will they prevent? I will listen to decent arguments! Every time I need to ID myself I can produce my passport or driving licence. I have had to produce at airports, banks and government offices and the current system seems to work fine. I don't mind the government and banks tightening up security to prevent fraud and terrorism but I don't see how ID cards will help. How will this stop identity theft? It just gives forgers another opportunity to fool the authorities. Do the government want the police to carry retina scanners on their belts? The only people who will carry these will be the ones who don't really need to. As for getting stopped and asked for an ID card well they can go and screw themselves. If I'm not doing anything wrong then why the hell should I have to prove myself to the government/police or whoever. If your up to no good then how's an ID card going to help them. Do the government plan to round up Asylum Seekers in droves cause they don't have cards? And if the Germans don't really take the ID card system seriously what the point. Why introduce a system and then ignore it? I see mass non-compliance. What are they going to do fine you for not having your card, take you to court or make you go home and get it? In which case why can't they make you get your passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 May be George Orwell wrongly named his book 1984 by a few decades. Having ID cards will not prevent the sort of scum that pack their coats with grenades and blow kids up, or hijack planes and crash them into skyscrapers. The lowest form of excrement in society will forge or dodge anything to carry out their evil. After ID cards the next move will be to plant chips under the skin to be swiped like we do to our household pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 All good comments on this thread. Does the cost of the id cards mean we shouldn't try to find ways of making society a better place to live for all? Does anyone have any better ideas? There always was, is and will be a bad element to society and no matter where the data is stored, a determined person will always be able to access it. It might be quicker to access the info if stored in one central point but it must also mean that having one place to protect should make the information easier to guard? Id cards aren't an ideal solution to helping prevent law breaking, but the published reason is to help authorities identify real law breakers quicker and that has to be good. If you are not guilty of anything, what do you have to hide? A reasonable deterrant against crime should be tried and tested before being judged and the results from one culture will not be the same for the next. Okay I don't like the idea of picking up the cost, but once I have the id no big deal, I carry credits cards around with me so why not another bit of plastic or whatever? I can think of worse things to be imposed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 Rog: I can very well see your point and it is actually quite worrying when you think about it.. People are still not taking their personal data serious enough and if you ever bought anything with your Debit/Credit card, then the chances are good that somebody knows about it you never thought would - from Markting people to the police. And that's just for starters - then there's your store cards, membership cards, etc - just a big amount of uncontrolled data... The Big Brother state already exists (imho), only that nobody would publicly admit it (yet)... That's one of the reasons why I won't go to the US on holiday - would have loved to go to Vegas or so, but I won't give the yanks a fingerprint and photo of me when I enter the country - the last time I looked, this practise was carried out for criminals, not tourists, and the yanks still can't explain who actually has access to this information - how was that about knocks on the door in the morning?... Might only be a matter of time until we get the same here - biometrics everywhere - look at the ATM, get cash - put your finger on the counter, your goods are paid. All that.. The only thing I wonder about is, who is supposed to look after so much data and analyze it? I could see the BB state fail on this one - just too expensive to go through everyone's daily moves and transactions.. After ID cards the next move will be to plant chips under the skin to be swiped like we do to our household pets. Already been done in America - although only by one scientist and voluntarily, but the technology works And another company there offers GPS chips that you can have implanted now - the excuse? Put them in your kids, so you find them when they're abducted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellen Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Once ID cards are issued, it will likely be a requirement to produce it every time you visit a bank to make a withdrawl, or use a debit / credit card in a shop. In some parts of the states you hand over your ID with your credit card as a matter of routine. The banks should contribute towards the cost of the card, because it is they who will benefit through lower fraudulent card losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Right, forget what I said before. When I said It wouldn't worry me. I think it's a good idea. Now I think it's a good idea but the Government should fund them not the individuals. Didn't realise they expect people to pay for them themselves. The Cheeky barstewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Heh, we'll pay one way or another dude, whether it's directly through our wallet or indirectly by taxes being diverted to fund it. Not too sure where I stand on this one tbh, I don't like or have store/credit cards nor loyalty cards, for this very reason. I can kinda see the benefit of it (not eeryone drives nor does everyone have a passport). I guess it all boils down to what exactly they will be used for and what information will be gathered from them. If I had a clearer picture of this, I could make a more informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I used to be in the 'Great Idea, if you've got nothing to hide.....' camp. Now, I think, as others have mentioned, the 'bad guys' will just forge/streal/get round the ID cards issue. This will leave us in a position where the only 'real' cards are the ones being carried by decent people. And this will achieve what? Spain has ID cards. Sadly, it didn't stop the bombings on the trains. Does anyone actually think Osama Bin Laden is going to travel around the world with a genuine ID card. So, we, the public, are out of pocket for a system that won't protect us anyway. Now, I hope everyone is sitting down, because I think vaders May be George Orwell wrongly named his book 1984 by a few decades. could have an element of truth. (You can breathe out now ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyMaiden Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I dont have any personal objection to carrying an ID card although I may have an issue regards paying for one myself ! The big brother argument is a non starter really .. the Data Protection Act does offer comprehensive protection against misuse of personal information. However, for those of you with worries about it you seem to be in very good company. I checked out some of the Civil Liberty websites today and there is an impressive array of arguments against carrying ID cards. Check out Charter 88 for an impressive pdf setting out an argument against the card. Charter 88 If nothing else ..it does make one wonder if it is for the Government to make the argument for ..rather than protestors to make the argument against ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 . the Data Protection Act does offer comprehensive protection against misuse of personal information. I disagree. The Data Protection Act was originally brought in to clamp down on the likes of catalogue companies. Sadly, the remit of the Act was so wide that it adversely affected everyone entering data electronically. There are several 'escape' clauses in the act and there are a number of ways of by-passing it. Like any legislation, it is only ever as good as the people who enforce it. I, for one have no faith that it is protecting me. It was also used as the coverall excuse for not wanting/being able to help people with inquiring about information from an organization. 'Can't tell you....Data Protection' That, however, has been superseded by blaming everything on 'Health and Safety' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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