Summerland 40Th Anniversary

[Albert Tatlock]

Hindsight is always twenty-twenty.

[Torry loon]

A fair enough post manxman1980.

 

I hope I don't sound patronising but: the reason that the public don't generally question whether something is safe or not - we cross a bridge, jump on a ferry, even stand on a piece of glass at the top of Blackpool Tower, or whatever - is because in our society we know and trust there are Regulations and laws in place to make such places safe when they are built. This allows us to not worry about such mundane things as assessing the safety of a building ourselves whenever we enter, we just get on with life and leave that to others. In the case of Summerland, people were let down by the authorities. To suggest otherwise, is a bit divisive.

 

(btw I am not at home just now, but when I can I will post up the newspaper interview regarding the reporter raising questions about fire safety when the building was opened. It's no big deal, but it happened.)

Edited August 8, 2013 by Torry loon

[manxman1980]

Cheers Torry

 

You are right that we rarely notice some of the biggest hazards around us, afterall when did you last examine the strcuctural integrity of the house to make sure it does not collapse on you? Mind you there is no way you will catch me standing on a glass floor in Blackpool Tower no matter what regulations exist!

 

As I say I was intrigued by some of the comments I had read and that was the reason I asked about what people who had used the building before the fire had thought of it at the time.

[Lonan3]

I went once to the Cave - which I found so unbearably claustrophobic that I left after no more than a few minutes. I also went to the original Summerland just the once - I really didn't like the place, but I've no idea why.

[irishone]

 

Not that I was ever aware of Manxman1980. It was often the case that various dignitaries got to look over buildings that had been refurbished or newly built, often with suitable refreshments provided, but they were hardly going to be the ones to respond in an emergency. The only time I ever got a guided tour of anywhere was as a result of my own initiative. Having said that, in the case of Summerland, I doubt that I would have been much more effective even if I had known my way around the building. By the time I got there the only obvious way in (at least to me) was from the Port Jack side, up the concrete stairway, but the conditions even there were pretty bad. Looking through the gaps between the doors, it was just a mass of flame the other side and it was obvious that the fire was beyond control. I don't think I have ever felt so helpless in any situation before or since.

 

Thanks for the reply. My general impression is that Summerland may have a few similarities with the Titanic (and other similar events). Generally built in accordance with the regulations in force at the time and considered to be a marvel of modern technology and construction techniques. In the design, however, some risks are over looked or assessed to be very unlikely and therefore additional safety precautions are not put in place. Once built and in use a tragic sequence of events leads to the design flaws being laid bare and people losing their lives as a result.

 

Following the event realisation dawns about just how dangerous a sequence of events can be (see also Piper Alpha Disaster) and then the regulations see a massive overhaul to improve safety in design, construction and operation.

 

What led to the loss of life in all these tragedies was not one single event. It was a sequence of events that interacted with each other and multiplied the original problem and it is with hindsight we can look back and say IF that had not been allowed then the whole sequence would have been stopped. This is why I have been asking the questions about whether anything was clearly evident to the general public that made them think Summerland was unsafe. Torry Loon points to a journalist who asked a question about fire safety, others point to corners being cut in the design and construction yet still the general public at the time chose to go to Summerland on a regular basis. That seems to suggest that many people felt it was safe and felt that the risk was within acceptable standards, however, in some of the survivors accounts they talk about the building as being obviously unsafe and a fire risk. I am suggesting that this is a view taken with experience of the horrors of the fire and the benefit of hindsight.

 

As an aside you mentioned earlier about the removal of the Oroglass for testing well my grandfather took some of the Oroglass away to the UK with the Civil Defence for testing. I cannot recall where it was taken too but I am sure I could find out.

When I first heard the complete story the Titanic came into my mind too-a lot of people have said this.

[irishone]

 

Concerns raised by people either before or after dont really come into it, the building must have compiled with the Building Regulations at the time or it would not have opened to the public.

 

Blade Runner, you have got your Über Establishment head on yet again. That is a ridiculous statement. Why do you come out with such rubbish?

 

For example, the flying staircase did not comply with Theatre Regulations in that they were too narrow although this was said to be acceptable by the authorities.

 

There was a certain amount of criticism of the Building Regulations and the way Building Control was administered. From Dr Phillips Report of the inquiry Chapter 6

 

“The regulations cannot guard against incompetence on the part of architects, designers, engineers or builders unless there is an adequate system of independent inspection by Building Control Officers. This was certainly not the case in the Isle of Man”.

I am chilled by photos of the flying staircase after the fire-the treads are almost eaten through. I sustained my injuries from the flames coming through the open treads and I often have nightmares in which the steps give way and I fall into the flames. They were very narrow-which hindered those trying to escape.

[Torry loon]

Well thank you irishone for quoting my post. I think good ol' Blade Runner must have overlooked it first time round...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

What do you mean by the open treads?

[Torry loon]

Let me Google™ that for you....

Edited August 9, 2013 by Torry loon

[Vorta]

What do you mean by the open treads?

You can see through the staircase to the ground below. The steps have no 'backs' to them.

[mr.xxx]

as the pictures and video has been put on youtube of the fire,

is there a few made during the aftermath, cleanup, demolition and rebuild?

i can imagine the fire chaos, the blaming afterwards (one open space without compartments, it was crystal palace all over)

chained exits (last year a phuket club, tiger bar burned, 4 dead, locked emergency exits, loads of un treated interiour... to save a buck, corners still get cut)

 

my friend that owns a greenhouse wanted to replace the glass with the "much safer" modern oroglas ... with me welding, grinding... no thanks.

i can not walk far, 100 meter is a death trap. i used Summerland to prove my point, steel plates are used now.

still, if he did not listen, it would happen all over again, mistake after mistake.

[hboy]

Talking of memories, I still remember the original Summerland as a kid. Even now I can remember the acrylic smell from everything that seemed to be made from either fibre glass or plastic. Looking at the pictures of the fire I'm not surprised how quickly it all took hold.

[mr.xxx]

i would guess that the smell lasted for days, if not,longer.

the heat would be intense too, did the swimming pool produced a lot of steam?

also the plastic trim of furniture , paints used would give enough toxins.

 

it may sound weird, but this fire keeps me busy, even if the event happened 7 years before my birth.

i had a dream a bout it, that i was trapped in the fire, feeling chaos , panic and the pain.

i don't know why, if freaked me out to find the place did exist after looking for pictures on the internet.

[tameelf]

the paint on steelwork was red oxide primer undercoat and gloss any thing else painted would be waterbased or oil based no specilist instrumesent was used rules then did not insist on it

it was about this time lead in paint was being banned

 

i doubt there was any swimming pool steam as there was a natural chimley created in the build between the rock face and aquadrome

[mr.xxx]

chimley, had to google that one.

i would think even waterbased paint gives nasties when burned.

same as most products from this day, scary to see what smoke they give.

still i am wondering if anyone took pictures of the building in various stages.

i am not interested in seeing the bodies, more in the structure (warped metal , remains of wall's etc)