Torry loon Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 chained exits On one of the Facebook pages, someone who worked there insists that no exits were chained. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.xxx Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 what facebook page? i am up for discussion with people who been there. out of building / engineering it is intresting. thanks, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdose Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Could be this one: https://www.facebook.com/SummerlandFire?fref=ts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 152 signatures on the petition...let's hope they don't get many more. The idea of turning the whole site into a full memorial is extremely misguided IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torry loon Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 What the person has said (including on manxforums) is perfectly reasonable, well written and persuasive...until their petition to make the whole site into a memorial. what facebook page? i am up for discussion with people who been there. out of building / engineering it is intresting. thanks, A There was quite a discussion developed a few months back on Manx Nostalgia Facebook page. As well as the claim about there being no chains on the doors there was also the assertion by someone caught in the fire that they thought Professor Phillips paper on Summerland contained mostly rubbish, or words to that effect. (I would normally link and source, but just now I don't have time). Facebook is largely non-anonymous and obviously a lot more reliable than what we might read on manxforums. Not necessarily though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 152 signatures on the petition...let's hope they don't get many more. The idea of turning the whole site into a full memorial is extremely misguided IMO. Great! Why don't they just make it into a cemetery with flashing lights to attract visitors to the site and have done with it. The small memorial should be adequately enough and anything else is just over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 What the person has said (including on manxforums) is perfectly reasonable, well written and persuasive...until their petition to make the whole site into a memorial. what facebook page? i am up for discussion with people who been there. out of building / engineering it is intresting. thanks, A There was quite a discussion developed a few months back on Manx Nostalgia Facebook page. As well as the claim about there being no chains on the doors there was also the assertion by someone caught in the fire that they thought Professor Phillips paper on Summerland contained mostly rubbish, or words to that effect. (I would normally link and source, but just now I don't have time). Facebook is largely non-anonymous and obviously a lot more reliable than what we might read on manxforums. Not necessarily though. But what's the point? People can argue the toss all they want about health and safety equipment, fire doors, chains, who to blame, why there wasn't a transporter/ teleportation device installed, but it won't bring the people back. How macabre are people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorta Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just search summerland fire to find community page on Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 But what's the point? People can argue the toss all they want about health and safety equipment, fire doors, chains, who to blame, why there wasn't a transporter/ teleportation device installed, but it won't bring the people back. How macabre are people? I don't think looking at the reasons for the fire starting and the fire safety aspects are macabre. It is from understanding these that you can learn and take steps to prevent this type of incident in the future. What I struggle to understand is the need to examine who was to blame and the call for the current Manx Government to apologise or take responsibility for the events of that day. How many of the present Government were actually in Tynwald back then? If the current Government does apologise or take responsibility it no more changes anything than the British Government apologising for the slave trade. Learn from the events, remember those that lost their life and build for the future is what was needed in my opinion. We have done the first two (finally) and to some extent we did the third with the "new" Summerland. Now the site is derelict we need to do something else. If that includes a memorial then I will be happy with that but I do not think it should be solely a memorial gardens. Partly from a practical point of view it is not an area that I think of as being sunny and in the Winter the waves come over there and would cover everything in salt water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishone Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 What the person has said (including on manxforums) is perfectly reasonable, well written and persuasive...until their petition to make the whole site into a memorial. what facebook page? i am up for discussion with people who been there. out of building / engineering it is intresting. thanks, A There was quite a discussion developed a few months back on Manx Nostalgia Facebook page. As well as the claim about there being no chains on the doors there was also the assertion by someone caught in the fire that they thought Professor Phillips paper on Summerland contained mostly rubbish, or words to that effect. (I would normally link and source, but just now I don't have time). Facebook is largely non-anonymous and obviously a lot more reliable than what we might read on manxforums. Not necessarily though. Where is the bit on ManxForums I didn't see it, I only heard of the petition on the facebook page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torry loon Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Can I urge everyone who is interested in the Summerland fire to please read the 'Report of The Summerland Fire Commission'? It's available from Tynwald Library at £2.00 From reading some of the previous posts it seems there has been a lot of speculation. The facts are in the report. Many mistakes were made by many people. As a result, 50 people died at the time but that figure doesn't take into account the people who died later as a direct result of the injuries suffered, 80 were seriously injured and many more have suffered what we now know to be post traumatic stress (which wasn't invented at the time). They received little, if any, counselling. I have set up a Facebook page called Summerland Fire for the people who were directly involved or witnessed horrific scenes to be able to make contact with each other and perhaps be able to lay some of the ghosts. I've discovered many people have for 40 years been unable to even talk of the events and are only now able to write (through PM's) about what happened to them, many have made contact with people they worked with there on the night. This has led on to my starting a petition to try to get the Summerland site properly recognised for what it is. 40 years ago 3,000 people walked into what was a plastic hangar. They trusted they would be safe. They were let down. The people I've met and stories told to me from people all over the UK make me ashamed that my government of the time (who didn't have in place proper fire legislation), the Douglas Corporation of the time (the owners of Summerland who issued waivers to their own bye-laws in order to build using cheap, combustible materials), the architects Philips Lomas (who had never buit anything more than domestic housing before and were given free rein in an 'old boy' network), and Trust Houses Forte (the operators who didn't give their staff proper fire safety procedures or staff training in the event of a fire) caused so much death, pain and suffering to innocent people. For too long we have been silent and I suspect successive government and certainly this government would be happy to keep it that way. If you feel strongly (as I do) that the time has come to speak up, please sign my online petition http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/summerland-for-commemorative-gardens.html. Thank you And I think Lonan3 summed it up quite well: I agreed with every word of your post until I clicked on the link. Without going over what I - and others - have said, I really would not like to see the entire area devoted to a memorial garden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Part of the petition said: We, the undersigned, demand the Isle of Man Government (the owners) do not sell the Summerland site for redevelopment but instead designate the land for use as commemorative gardens.We strongly believe this site should be dedicated to the 50 men, women and children who died there. I would not like to see a memorial garden as I also, would not want pay for the site and upkeep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If this was in the immediate aftermath, it would be understandable and supported. But, many years have passed and the site was used for many more years as a reduced leisure complex. So, sorry but no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If this was in the immediate aftermath, it would be understandable and supported. But, many years have passed and the site was used for many more years as a reduced leisure complex. So, sorry but no I agree Gladys and with a memorial area already available, I really don't see as to why there's a need to have two? We should build something positive with the Summerland site and I've mentioned before of a dry ski slope and themed playground area etc, etc and etc. Lets look at the future and not at the past. Lets have something that the majority of people want. Let people enjoy themselves and this time, in complete safety. Lets move on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishone Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 the paint on steelwork was red oxide primer undercoat and gloss any thing else painted would be waterbased or oil based no specilist instrumesent was used rules then did not insist on it it was about this time lead in paint was being banned i doubt there was any swimming pool steam as there was a natural chimley created in the build between the rock face and aquadrome we have chimleys in N.I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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