Summerland 40Th Anniversary

[Lonan3]

 

 

 

 

Other stuff i recall is that my sister, who'd only just passed her driving-test was busy running some of the less-injured to Nobles and then picking-up blood-donors and ferrying them to the hospital. Weren't some of the local cabbies also involved with this? Maybe Lonan3 could shed light on this...?

I wasn't driving cabs at the time - I didn't start doing that until the late 90s - but I've obviously heard a lot about it from many who were working that night. What you say is absolutely true; as soon as they realised what was happening, a lot of the cabbies raced over to Summerland and volunteered their services. A number of them still have nightmares about some of the things they saw that night, particularly those who were re-directed to take people to St George's Hall.

It was, as so many have said, a preventable 'accident' in so many ways. There was a great deal of rumour and conjecture about some of the things that happened and many remain convinced that the whole truth remains buried deep in a lead-lined coffin - which may well be why it's taken 40 years to approve a memorial that can actually be visible. The fact that little blame was ever apportioned can probably best be observed in that, not only did the modified building reopen for business, it actually did so under the same name - grossly insensitive even by the standards of those times.

It certainly marked, despite the occasional revival, the end of the local mass tourist industry.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Lonan3

[Vorta]

My parents and I had plans to go to summer land that night. Thank goodness our plans changed. We could see the glow of the fire from our house in anagh coar.

[twinkle]

My parents and I had plans to go to summer land that night. Thank goodness our plans changed. We could see the glow of the fire from our house in anagh coar.

I was at work on a building site out Baldwin and I think one of the many radio's on site was tuned to manx radio,and as we looked out from the sun terrace we could see the huge plume of black smoke from way out there,i was on the phone sharply to see if the wife and the kids had decided to go to summerland,as they quite often did,but I was lucky,or they were I mean they had other activities going that day if I recall correctly.just yer Donald I guess.

[irishone]

 

Why did it take 40 years to do this ?

WHY do it

Hopefully to honour and remember each innocent person who lost their lives in Summerland!

[irishone]

I was 13 that year, a group of us were playing football in the square of garages behind Windsor road; where Windsor Court now stands. We noticed a great, black plume of smoke and rushed down Crellins Hill to the 'Rendezvous' and saw the blaze, at this time about half-way up one side of the building. A couple of us ran the whole way over to the site to watch. By the time we got there the building was completely ablaze and there were hundreds of people standing around, awestruck at what was unfolding. We stood at the bottom of the foot-bridge which straddled the road. One of my most abiding memories was of a guy wandering around calling out for (i can only presume) family members. His jacket was smoking and had shrunk about his torso, his hair burnt away and in a state of complete shock. All around people were screaming and crying, some sat silent, their heads in their hands. Others wandered aimlessly, the whites of their eyes made starker because of their blackened-faces; adults and children alike.

I can only suppose the fire and ambulance crews did their very best, the sight of one fireman, with tears streaming down his also blackened face, brought home the seriousness of what was happening. They were just over-whelmed, completely. Tragic and very sad, harking back as i write this.

A picture appeared on the front of (i think) the Daily Mirror which showed a figure standing on one of the staircases, apparently welded or melted in an upright position, holding on to the bannister-rail. Included in the report accompanying the photo's, a description was given of three boys seen running away from the scene. The implication was that these boys had something to do with the fire and were wanted by the local police. The description of one of these boys was ''blonde, with a 'German-Helmet' type haircut'', a fashionable style at the time, rather like a 'mullet'.

Two nights later, myself and a friend were walking down Mount Havelock (he with much the same type of haircut and us both fitting the descriptions given) when two Mini's screeched to a halt beside us, the doors flung open and suddenly we were surrounded by CID men, one of whom, without warning or explanation, slapped me hard around the face and head a couple of times, grabbed me by the hair and bundled me into the back of one car, my mate thrown into the back of the other. We were then driven, at speed, the short distance into Hill Street, and came to a halt outside what is now 'Bar George'. Once again, i was grabbed by the hair and dragged out of the car and in through the first set of doors, all the while being shouted-at and generally roughed-up.

Saint Georges hall was were some of the bodies were taken because of the overload at Nobles and down each side of that small hall were sheets, laid out on the floor on top of which lay the only partly covered bodies of the victims. The was a pervading smell of disinfectant, which poorly masked what i can only describe as the smell of, well, cooked meat. By this time of course, i was in shock myself, made worse by the detective, still dragging me this way and that by the scruff of my neck, shouting in my face, '' You did this, didn't you...?''. The same treatment being meted-out to my mate. At the end of that hall there used to be a small stage area and on it was a table covered with paper-work. We were man-handled into a seat and questions/accusations fired at us regarding the fire. The violence continued also, until one copper told the other to stop. We were arrested, photographed and finger-printed too.

At this point, my memory fails me as i was by this time in tears/extreme shock and wanted my parents. The rest is just a blur; i don't remember much of what happened after this, not getting home or how. The cops had us there for what was probably a couple of hours then took us home. I remember being put in our backroom whilst the cop explained to my parents, in another room, what had taken place.

After telling my parents what had happened and what had been done to us, my mother and father went into a rage and we took off for the police station, just off Athol Street, as it was then. Frank Weedon was, if i remember correctly, the Chief Constable and knew my mother, (possibly because they were both scousers!) who demanded his presence. Once again, the exact details are a bit of a blur but i remember a lot of shouting and my father saying something like, 'I know when my son is lying and it's not now', my mother in tears (of outrage more than anything, i suspect).

A few days later, when the boy's who were actually responsible for setting the initial, small-fire in an adjoining kiosk, which caused the fatal conflagration, were caught, the Chief Constable called at our house with a large brown envelope containing the photographs and fingerprints taken from me. My mother invited him in and made him tear up the prints in front of us and throw them in the fire.

 

It was an horrendous episode, and what happened to me is nowt compared to the plight of others. The memory of the whole affair shudders me to this day.

If any memorial is to be made it should be on the site of the fire itself, not stuck away in the place designated.

As far as the Oroglas goes, the manufacturers of this product had designed a sprinkler system to be installed with their product in the event of fire but this advice was completely ignored due to cost and blind ignorance. I can remember seeing on the night, sheets of it shrinking out of the frame and falling into the heart of the fire.

 

Strangely-enough, there exists on youtube, a video of our currently-suspended Attorney-General, being interviewed by ITN, giving his eye-witness account. My friend and i stand directly behind him.

 

Years later i befriended the son of one of the architects who told me his father had never gotten over feeling responsible for what happened.

There are others who effectively got away scott-free with what now may be classed as corporate-manslaughter.

 

A tragedy that should never've happened.

That is very interesting-I was asked a long time ago about what happened to me and I explained about Summerland, and the lady in question said that her husband-( when he was a teenager) along with his friend had been under suspicion too!!

[irishone]

The use of the name "Summerland" for the new building came as a shock to me when I found out just a few years ago! In fact I was rather surprised that a similar building had been erected on the site. I found it very difficult to look at pictures of people having fun in the new building, (one which I image had sprinklers, which if they had been installed in the old building would have doused the flames I had to run through in order to escape and which caused my terrible injuries.) after what happened to my family and I.

Edited July 8, 2013 by irishone

[irishone]

irishone - If you click on the first link in my post above you can (eventually) see a picture of the new memorial. You will need to tick to "I agree to this statement box" and then click on the "proceed to document box". The planning application will open in a separate PDF window (you may need to click on that to display it) and the mock-up photo is on page 4. It says the new memorial is about 2 metres high, so it will be a bit of an improvement.

Many thanks!!!

[Sentience]

I was 13 that year, a group of us were playing football in the square of garages behind Windsor road; where Windsor Court now stands. We noticed a great, black plume of smoke and rushed down Crellins Hill to the 'Rendezvous' and saw the blaze, at this time about half-way up one side of the building. A couple of us ran the whole way over to the site to watch. By the time we got there the building was completely ablaze and there were hundreds of people standing around, awestruck at what was unfolding. We stood at the bottom of the foot-bridge which straddled the road. One of my most abiding memories was of a guy wandering around calling out for (i can only presume) family members. His jacket was smoking and had shrunk about his torso, his hair burnt away and in a state of complete shock. All around people were screaming and crying, some sat silent, their heads in their hands. Others wandered aimlessly, the whites of their eyes made starker because of their blackened-faces; adults and children alike.

I can only suppose the fire and ambulance crews did their very best, the sight of one fireman, with tears streaming down his also blackened face, brought home the seriousness of what was happening. They were just over-whelmed, completely. Tragic and very sad, harking back as i write this.

A picture appeared on the front of (i think) the Daily Mirror which showed a figure standing on one of the staircases, apparently welded or melted in an upright position, holding on to the bannister-rail. Included in the report accompanying the photo's, a description was given of three boys seen running away from the scene. The implication was that these boys had something to do with the fire and were wanted by the local police. The description of one of these boys was ''blonde, with a 'German-Helmet' type haircut'', a fashionable style at the time, rather like a 'mullet'.

Two nights later, myself and a friend were walking down Mount Havelock (he with much the same type of haircut and us both fitting the descriptions given) when two Mini's screeched to a halt beside us, the doors flung open and suddenly we were surrounded by CID men, one of whom, without warning or explanation, slapped me hard around the face and head a couple of times, grabbed me by the hair and bundled me into the back of one car, my mate thrown into the back of the other. We were then driven, at speed, the short distance into Hill Street, and came to a halt outside what is now 'Bar George'. Once again, i was grabbed by the hair and dragged out of the car and in through the first set of doors, all the while being shouted-at and generally roughed-up.

Saint Georges hall was were some of the bodies were taken because of the overload at Nobles and down each side of that small hall were sheets, laid out on the floor on top of which lay the only partly covered bodies of the victims. The was a pervading smell of disinfectant, which poorly masked what i can only describe as the smell of, well, cooked meat. By this time of course, i was in shock myself, made worse by the detective, still dragging me this way and that by the scruff of my neck, shouting in my face, '' You did this, didn't you...?''. The same treatment being meted-out to my mate. At the end of that hall there used to be a small stage area and on it was a table covered with paper-work. We were man-handled into a seat and questions/accusations fired at us regarding the fire. The violence continued also, until one copper told the other to stop. We were arrested, photographed and finger-printed too.

At this point, my memory fails me as i was by this time in tears/extreme shock and wanted my parents. The rest is just a blur; i don't remember much of what happened after this, not getting home or how. The cops had us there for what was probably a couple of hours then took us home. I remember being put in our backroom whilst the cop explained to my parents, in another room, what had taken place.

After telling my parents what had happened and what had been done to us, my mother and father went into a rage and we took off for the police station, just off Athol Street, as it was then. Frank Weedon was, if i remember correctly, the Chief Constable and knew my mother, (possibly because they were both scousers!) who demanded his presence. Once again, the exact details are a bit of a blur but i remember a lot of shouting and my father saying something like, 'I know when my son is lying and it's not now', my mother in tears (of outrage more than anything, i suspect).

A few days later, when the boy's who were actually responsible for setting the initial, small-fire in an adjoining kiosk, which caused the fatal conflagration, were caught, the Chief Constable called at our house with a large brown envelope containing the photographs and fingerprints taken from me. My mother invited him in and made him tear up the prints in front of us and throw them in the fire.

 

It was an horrendous episode, and what happened to me is nowt compared to the plight of others. The memory of the whole affair shudders me to this day.

If any memorial is to be made it should be on the site of the fire itself, not stuck away in the place designated.

As far as the Oroglas goes, the manufacturers of this product had designed a sprinkler system to be installed with their product in the event of fire but this advice was completely ignored due to cost and blind ignorance. I can remember seeing on the night, sheets of it shrinking out of the frame and falling into the heart of the fire.

 

Strangely-enough, there exists on youtube, a video of our currently-suspended Attorney-General, being interviewed by ITN, giving his eye-witness account. My friend and i stand directly behind him.

 

Years later i befriended the son of one of the architects who told me his father had never gotten over feeling responsible for what happened.

There are others who effectively got away scott-free with what now may be classed as corporate-manslaughter.

 

A tragedy that should never've happened.

Hey Bro, I had no idea that you had been subject to this kind of treatment by the 'boys NOT in blue'.

Sadly it does still happen to innocents in 2013, by those on the force charged with 'TARGETS'

My wife and her family (including those from the 'mainland') were in there that night, and she, my wiife, still goes around the house checking everything is OFF before we head off to bed. So the memories - fears are for a lifetime.

[irishone]

 

I was 13 that year, a group of us were playing football in the square of garages behind Windsor road; where Windsor Court now stands. We noticed a great, black plume of smoke and rushed down Crellins Hill to the 'Rendezvous' and saw the blaze, at this time about half-way up one side of the building. A couple of us ran the whole way over to the site to watch. By the time we got there the building was completely ablaze and there were hundreds of people standing around, awestruck at what was unfolding. We stood at the bottom of the foot-bridge which straddled the road. One of my most abiding memories was of a guy wandering around calling out for (i can only presume) family members. His jacket was smoking and had shrunk about his torso, his hair burnt away and in a state of complete shock. All around people were screaming and crying, some sat silent, their heads in their hands. Others wandered aimlessly, the whites of their eyes made starker because of their blackened-faces; adults and children alike.

I can only suppose the fire and ambulance crews did their very best, the sight of one fireman, with tears streaming down his also blackened face, brought home the seriousness of what was happening. They were just over-whelmed, completely. Tragic and very sad, harking back as i write this.

A picture appeared on the front of (i think) the Daily Mirror which showed a figure standing on one of the staircases, apparently welded or melted in an upright position, holding on to the bannister-rail. Included in the report accompanying the photo's, a description was given of three boys seen running away from the scene. The implication was that these boys had something to do with the fire and were wanted by the local police. The description of one of these boys was ''blonde, with a 'German-Helmet' type haircut'', a fashionable style at the time, rather like a 'mullet'.

Two nights later, myself and a friend were walking down Mount Havelock (he with much the same type of haircut and us both fitting the descriptions given) when two Mini's screeched to a halt beside us, the doors flung open and suddenly we were surrounded by CID men, one of whom, without warning or explanation, slapped me hard around the face and head a couple of times, grabbed me by the hair and bundled me into the back of one car, my mate thrown into the back of the other. We were then driven, at speed, the short distance into Hill Street, and came to a halt outside what is now 'Bar George'. Once again, i was grabbed by the hair and dragged out of the car and in through the first set of doors, all the while being shouted-at and generally roughed-up.

Saint Georges hall was were some of the bodies were taken because of the overload at Nobles and down each side of that small hall were sheets, laid out on the floor on top of which lay the only partly covered bodies of the victims. The was a pervading smell of disinfectant, which poorly masked what i can only describe as the smell of, well, cooked meat. By this time of course, i was in shock myself, made worse by the detective, still dragging me this way and that by the scruff of my neck, shouting in my face, '' You did this, didn't you...?''. The same treatment being meted-out to my mate. At the end of that hall there used to be a small stage area and on it was a table covered with paper-work. We were man-handled into a seat and questions/accusations fired at us regarding the fire. The violence continued also, until one copper told the other to stop. We were arrested, photographed and finger-printed too.

At this point, my memory fails me as i was by this time in tears/extreme shock and wanted my parents. The rest is just a blur; i don't remember much of what happened after this, not getting home or how. The cops had us there for what was probably a couple of hours then took us home. I remember being put in our backroom whilst the cop explained to my parents, in another room, what had taken place.

After telling my parents what had happened and what had been done to us, my mother and father went into a rage and we took off for the police station, just off Athol Street, as it was then. Frank Weedon was, if i remember correctly, the Chief Constable and knew my mother, (possibly because they were both scousers!) who demanded his presence. Once again, the exact details are a bit of a blur but i remember a lot of shouting and my father saying something like, 'I know when my son is lying and it's not now', my mother in tears (of outrage more than anything, i suspect).

A few days later, when the boy's who were actually responsible for setting the initial, small-fire in an adjoining kiosk, which caused the fatal conflagration, were caught, the Chief Constable called at our house with a large brown envelope containing the photographs and fingerprints taken from me. My mother invited him in and made him tear up the prints in front of us and throw them in the fire.

 

It was an horrendous episode, and what happened to me is nowt compared to the plight of others. The memory of the whole affair shudders me to this day.

If any memorial is to be made it should be on the site of the fire itself, not stuck away in the place designated.

As far as the Oroglas goes, the manufacturers of this product had designed a sprinkler system to be installed with their product in the event of fire but this advice was completely ignored due to cost and blind ignorance. I can remember seeing on the night, sheets of it shrinking out of the frame and falling into the heart of the fire.

 

Strangely-enough, there exists on youtube, a video of our currently-suspended Attorney-General, being interviewed by ITN, giving his eye-witness account. My friend and i stand directly behind him.

 

Years later i befriended the son of one of the architects who told me his father had never gotten over feeling responsible for what happened.

There are others who effectively got away scott-free with what now may be classed as corporate-manslaughter.

 

A tragedy that should never've happened.

Hey Bro, I had no idea that you had been subject to this kind of treatment by the 'boys NOT in blue'.

Sadly it does still happen to innocents in 2013, by those on the force charged with 'TARGETS'

My wife and her family (including those from the 'mainland') were in there that night, and she, my wiife, still goes around the house checking everything is OFF before we head off to bed. So the memories - fears are for a lifetime.

The fears are for a life-time, I wake all the time imagining I can smell smoke.

[Domino]

Any memorial should be close to the Summerland site, not the memorial garden at the bottom of Summerhill.

 

Why? Many ex Cave fans used that area for a quick - ahem - 'snogging transit stop off' after chucking out time.

Especially when it was overgrown and unknown.

 

Make it big and noticeable next to the Termy, in such a place that it will not need moving if anyone ever develops the site.

[Thomas Jefferson]

From Isle of Man: Photographic Memories, this is what the the site looked like in 1896.

 

 

 

Anybody know of any closer-up photos of the old Victorian site or even its interior?

Edited July 8, 2013 by Thomas Jefferson

[Shake me up Judy]

That end of the prom used to be really beautiful, and we let it go. First they knocked down the Derby Castle. Then they built Summerland. Look at it now. The Luftwaffe couldn't have done a better job than our planners and politicians. A national disgrace.

[Lonan3]

From Isle of Man: Photographic Memories, this is what the the site looked like in 1896.

 

DSC_0091.jpg

 

Anybody know of any closer-up photos of the old Victorian site or even its interior?

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/towns/douglas/dcastle.htm

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

 

From Isle of Man: Photographic Memories, this is what the the site looked like in 1896.

 

DSC_0091.jpg

 

Anybody know of any closer-up photos of the old Victorian site or even its interior?

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/towns/douglas/dcastle.htm

 

 

What about the castle part, though? I heard it had Victorian arcade games or curiosities as well as an ice cream shop?

[manxy]

As a memorial garden, I'd say yes in sorts, but it should be so much more.

The people went there to have fun, to have a good time and both should be incorporated into whatever building is eventually planned.

We can't take away the pain, the suffering, the horror of the day, but we can make sure that there's a quiet and restful place and designed specifically for the families to have that personal time to themselves.

I would add and put forward a suggestion that a person should be appointed to hear and design a place of remembrance and at the same time, design the rest of the building as somewhere where those who have passed away, would have been eager to see, to have fun and to enjoy the designs of the community as a tribute to the past and also to the future.

 

This is what I would personally want and to leave it as a bare rock face shell with just a face of painful memories, doesn't sit quite right with me and whatever is thought of and providing there's a place of remembrance, then that's fine by me.

 

Do others agree that something is better than nothing?

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for those who still remember the tragedy, but I do feel that a building should be built and that a special place is needed, so lets do this together.