Homosexuality Should Not Be Promoted - Uk Academies

[Max Power]

 

 

I can see what TJ is trying to say LDV, I think he is talking in the mid term? People have not fully embraced the homosexual lifestyle yet, whether they ever will or not is open to debate but I see a day when things will be more open.

I think you would like a fast change of peoples opinions but I'm not sure that is possible. Things have come a long way since 1967 I think it was, when homosexuality was decriminalised but it's going to take a few generations to wash through the minds of some people. I think it's a case of slow and steady wins the race.

I know what TJ is advocating, but the question is why it should be gay people who should respond to appease straight people.

 

What you seem to be doing is excusing the attitudes of people who have prejudiced behaviour. It's like you want are saying that there are these people who not 'right' somehow and that they just have to wait until society tolerates them and gets used to them. It also implies that you attitude is one of tolerance.

 

Here is a good question to ask, why do you think that any gay person should accept discrimination and anything less than equal treatment and consideration of their sexuality as equals to those of straights? Why should a gay person (or anyone) made alterations to their behaviour and ability to express themselves on the basis of ignorant attitudes?

I don't see why schoolchildren should not be made aware of homosexuality and how they themselves may be affected? I guess this would help to break down some of the barriers but it seems that kids are more open minded than they were even a few years ago.

There is far more tolerance in society and there is less ability for people to discriminate and very visibly be homophobic. But it isn't an open-mindedness that comes with acceptance.

 

 

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's attitude or prejudices at all, I am trying to say that you can not just flick a switch and wipe away centuries of intolerance, prejudice and ignorance. You can legislate all you want but removing ingrained prejudice is nigh on impossible. Gay people should not have to accept it but there is nothing that can be done in the short term other than to educate and work towards the future.

As for your question, you answered it for yourself.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It has come a long way, but only in particular respects. It has removed anti-gay legislation and there is far, far more tolerance. But these laws have come through upon the approval of straight people and it is tolerance we have, not acceptance. It's nearing legal equality but nowhere close to genuine equality where people consider homosexuality equally as 'legitimate'. Sexuality is still understood by both straight and gay people so that heterosexuality is the norm and all other sexualities are something lesser and something special.

 

But I do not see why you think attitudes such catch up? I don't know why you think that gay question should wait, rather than making it plain to straight that this is the way it is. I do think education is very helpful and gay people have to work to change institutions and challenges norms, but attitudes do not change by themselves and the change in attitude has been limited to tolerance.

 

I mean, look, if society is utterly heterosexist in the general assumption that heterosexuality is the proper and 'natural' sexuality then that leads to homophobia in multiple guises from the subtle to the overt.

Why should gay people endure any homophobia?

 

Why should a policy be accepted that treats homosexuality in a different manner to heterosexuality by making it clear that it is being discussed objectively, that it is an 'issue', and promotion should be permitted? In itself, this is not a document that treats the sexualities as equal. But the cost of this sort of policy is that the education that children receive make them think that there is not equality there, that there is something special, different, and possibly negative about it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's attitude or prejudices at all, I am trying to say that you can not just flick a switch and wipe away centuries of intolerance, prejudice and ignorance.

I find that you are excusing it, because although we both recognise that these attitudes and beliefs have existed for a long time and that it would take work to change those attitudes you mention this slow and steady work to change things.

 

If I can be more specific to the topic (or you can think of an example yourself), what would be wrong in challenging this policy document for example? Or maybe I should ask you what 'slow and steady' means.

 

You can legislate all you want but removing ingrained prejudice is nigh on impossible.

Yeah, I do recognise this. Legislation is limited in what it can do. It only opens door to changing things.

 

Gay people should not have to accept it but there is nothing that can be done in the short term other than to educate and work towards the future.

As for your question, you answered it for yourself.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but I see a contradiction. You recognise that work needs to be done and that gay people shouldn't accept a less than equal status and understanding of their sexuality. But what is it you're referring to in the short term? What can't be done in the short term? Are you just referring to changing attitudes? I agree, but that's why gay people need to challenge those attitudes or rather the basis for them. And if they have their own interests (and other gay peoples interests in mind) they shouldn't slowly approach things.

[thebees]

Labels.....what does it all mean? Straight? Gay? What a load of old bollocks and 'the gays' are just as bad as 'the straights' for making a fuss about absolutely NOTHING at all, ever, as if it even is.

[Max Power]

LDV, what I meant by slow and steady is following the path that you advocate but not expecting an overnight change in attitudes. I agree that the policy document should be challenged, it's just that it is very easy to be branded as a radical looney by the kind of academics who seem to think that they know what is best for everyone, it is them that the vast majority of people listen to unfortunately. So any challenge needs to be a well put together and presented case.

[Matt Bawden]

It's a bit like racism, there is legislation against it but there are still racists and I would imagine at least a bit of racism within everyone, so I imagine it will take a long time for attitudes to change to allow the promotion of homosexuality because it has taken this long for indifference to be mainstream.

 

I don't know but I would think that most people couldn't careless what sexuality another person is or at least they shouldn't because it isn't anyone's business.

 

I will say this, that when my children are at high school and are confused about their sexuality I would hope that all discussions within school time were about all sexuality because if they were not heterosexual it would break my heart if they felt so alone and isolated.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV, what I meant by slow and steady is following the path that you advocate but not expecting an overnight change in attitudes. I agree that the policy document should be challenged, it's just that it is very easy to be branded as a radical looney by the kind of academics who seem to think that they know what is best for everyone, it is them that the vast majority of people listen to unfortunately. So any challenge needs to be a well put together and presented case.

I have to say that I still don't quite know what you're getting at. I didn't comment in any way that there would be a change in attitudes, so I am unsure why this needs to be mentioned. In mentioning that there will be no overnight changes, what are you trying to get across?

 

With such a issue of the policy document there is just need to get it changed whatever way possible, because that would immediately remedy an 'injustice', an unequal treatment. People don't have to understand it or like, they just need to accept it. Of course, with all such campaigning there is mention of the reason but people either get it or they won't.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It's a bit like racism, there is legislation against it but there are still racists and I would imagine at least a bit of racism within everyone, so I imagine it will take a long time for attitudes to change to allow the promotion of homosexuality because it has taken this long for indifference to be mainstream.

What? I think you have your wording wrong. It isn't indifference, is it? And what I was complaining about with this issue of promotion is what the word means and implied. It is not something that should be in the policy.

I don't know but I would think that most people couldn't careless what sexuality another person is or at least they shouldn't because it isn't anyone's business.

That's naive. All people care very much what their own sexuality is and what other peoples are. And they should take notice and recognise it. It's natural to display sexuality. How did you meet your partner and realise you were right for each other if your sexualities were secret?

[Matt Bawden]

 

 

It's a bit like racism, there is legislation against it but there are still racists and I would imagine at least a bit of racism within everyone, so I imagine it will take a long time for attitudes to change to allow the promotion of homosexuality because it has taken this long for indifference to be mainstream.

What? I think you have your wording wrong. It isn't indifference, is it? And what I was complaining about with this issue of promotion is what the word means and implied. It is not something that should be in the policy.

I don't know but I would think that most people couldn't careless what sexuality another person is or at least they shouldn't because it isn't anyone's business.

That's naive. All people care very much what their own sexuality is and what other peoples are. And they should take notice and recognise it. It's natural to display sexuality. How did you meet your partner and realise you were right for each other if your sexualities were secret?

When I said indifference I meant couldn't really care less as there's more to be concerned about in their individual lives.

 

When I said individuals don't care about their own sexuality I was referring to the fact that you are what you are and when you talk about attracti g partners is it not based on subliminal signals and pheromones prior to any outwardly conscious sexual display.

[manxman1980]

LDV - A few weeks ago you were being critical of the "gay rights movement" for wanting equality for same sex couples to get married. Now you are complaining that LGBT people have a long way to go to get equality.

 

Do you not feel that there is some conflict in your views? I am generally support of LGBT rights and find it incredible that barriers are still placed in their way, however, that is also the same for people from different ethnic minorities who have had the legal protection for longer yet still suffer from racism and discrimination. Changing attitudes is a long and difficult path.

 

I have to say that sometimes your own attitude would make me consider my own personal views, however, I know many other people who are in same sex relationships and when i think of them I remember that you are just incredibly opinionated.

[quilp]

RAJ- You are what you is. If it took 2000yrs and condemnation in scripture for homosexuality to be considered abominable, it'll take another 2000yrs to revert back to a point where no-one bats an eyelid.

 

We'll all be long gone so what's the point?

[HeliX]

When do I get to publish my policy document that says homophobia should not be promoted?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV - A few weeks ago you were being critical of the "gay rights movement" for wanting equality for same sex couples to get married. Now you are complaining that LGBT people have a long way to go to get equality. Do you not feel that there is some conflict in your views?

Never said I was criticial of people for wanting legal equality. You didn't my read post properly.

In terms of 'legal equality', there isn't far to go at all. There isn't much requiring work.

But in terms of actual equality, real social equality, there certainly is a long way to go.

 

I am generally support of LGBT rights and find it incredible that barriers are still placed in their way, however, that is also the same for people from different ethnic minorities who have had the legal protection for longer yet still suffer from racism and discrimination.

Changing attitudes is a long and difficult path.

Yes, they do still suffer, but unfortunately there has been little motivation from groups working against racism to address the core problems of racism's existence.

 

The problem is that these sort of movements and gay people individually has lost their way when it comes to singularly focusing on legal matters.

I have to say that sometimes your own attitude would make me consider my own personal views, however, I know many other people who are in same sex relationships and when i think of them I remember that you are just incredibly opinionated.

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Is being opinionated a problem, if so, since when? Maybe they have no interest in policits or maybe they are naive and think there are no problems or maybe they disagree with such matters as equality.

[Shake me up Judy]

It all depends what you mean by 'promoted' ? I wouldn't want it promoted either, but then again I don't think we should be promoting sexual orientation or lifestyle full stop. We should be teaching reproduction in schools and basic sexual health but that's a different thing. Sexuality should be a private thing, a free choice between individuals and consenting adults, free from persecution or discrimination. Freedom and privacy are a cornerstone of the true liberal society, not this carnival of difference. It's absolutely right that homosexuality was decriminalised, but absolutely wrong that it has subsequently become such a public bandwagon.

[Albert Tatlock]

It all depends what you mean by 'promoted' ? I wouldn't want it promoted either, but then again I don't think we should be promoting sexual orientation or lifestyle full stop. We should be teaching reproduction in schools and basic sexual health but that's a different thing. Sexuality should be a private thing, a free choice between individuals and consenting adults, free from persecution or discrimination. Freedom and privacy are a cornerstone of the true liberal society, not this carnival of difference. It's absolutely right that homosexuality was decriminalised, but absolutely wrong that it has subsequently become such a public bandwagon.

I agree. I never mentioned it when I told my kids about the birds and the bees, as I've never seen any gay sparrows or bumble bees.