Kenya

[quilp]

TJ, if you've the time (speed-reading not recommended) check out some of these links which explain with some clarity, the problem with the cultural-relativism that comes out of your last post, regarding your opinions on where the 'blame' lies for the behaviour of the islamist butchers. It's the West, according to you....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/50486

 

And Geert Wilders, whatever you may think of him, has a convincing article in his blog, which is relative to the above link and shows why he's considered a risk to the left and all they believe they stand for....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/33500/cat_id/709

 

And also an interesting article on the origins of islam....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/142173/sec_id142173

 

Not that i like to use links too much but in this case they tend toward my take on things, amongst the many other theorists whose articulation is outstanding.

[Tarne]

Some of the pictures were horrific out there, and some news channels didn't show them. But then I thought "Why not show them? Why not show the pain and suffering this kind of thing causes?" - Because the pain is real, the pictures of the woman and child dead in the car were real, the pictures of the women shot in the head were real. Sigh

[Thomas Jefferson]

TJ, if you've the time (speed-reading not recommended) check out some of these links which explain with some clarity, the problem with the cultural-relativism that comes out of your last post, regarding your opinions on where the 'blame' lies for the behaviour of the islamist butchers. It's the West, according to you....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/50486

 

And Geert Wilders, whatever you may think of him, has a convincing article in his blog, which is relative to the above link and shows why he's considered a risk to the left and all they believe they stand for....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/33500/cat_id/709

 

And also an interesting article on the origins of islam....

 

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/142173/sec_id142173

 

Not that i like to use links too much but in this case they tend toward my take on things, amongst the many other theorists whose articulation is outstanding.

 

I'm hardly a fan of Islam. These laws on dhimmis, etc, were written during the dark ages, and Christian Europe had the same sort of laws for non-believers. We need to stick to modern history and see that there have been reformist trends in Islam but they have all been crushed with the help of the western powers. Just look at Iran: the US ousted a democratically elected secular reformist government and now look who's in power.

[Albert Tatlock]

I deplore the violence, but am a seeker of solutions. Here's a different, hypothetical, question...if the UK had sent troops in to the island to, say, drive out a resurgent MecVannin, would it be a surprise to see MecVannin fighting back in any way it could?

[Chinahand]

I deplore the violence, but am a seeker of solutions. Here's a different, hypothetical, question...if the UK had sent troops in to the island to, say, drive out a resurgent MecVannin, would it be a surprise to see MecVannin fighting back in any way it could?

Any way it could?

 

FFS, Albert it is not acceptable to massacre civilians in cold blood.

 

It doesn't matter if it happens in My Lai, Kandahar, Omagh, London, or Nairobi.

[Albert Tatlock]

Spare me the emotional response please, I thought you were a little above that. My point was, and you know it, is that there are all too many countries sticking their own troops into countries without UN approval.

 

Moreover, in its haste to find replacement industries following the ending of the cold war, the west have created their own invisible monster in the form of Al Qaeda, along with multi-billion pound sets of security industries to support it. The equivalent of its own 'monster from the id' (Forbidden Planet).

 

The fact is, people have been willing to die for their own causes and massacre civilians for millenia, from the Romans to the 55 million (mostly civilians) massacred in world war two.

[Thomas Jefferson]

it is not acceptable to massacre civilians in cold blood.

 

 

Just War Theory is not exactly black and white on the status of civilians. There are different schools of thought within Islam. There isn't the same western idea of "civilian" and "military" either; it's more about "combatant" and "non-combatant", with "combatant" extending beyond just a military meaning. The general rule is: it's okay to kill men.

[quilp]

Spare me the emotional response please, I thought you were a little above that. My point was, and you know it, is that there are all too many countries sticking their own troops into countries without UN approval.

 

Moreover, in its haste to find replacement industries following the ending of the cold war, the west have created their own invisible monster in the form of Al Qaeda, along with multi-billion pound sets of security industries to support it. The equivalent of its own 'monster from the id' (Forbidden Planet).

 

The fact is, people have been willing to die for their own causes and massacre civilians for millenia, from the Romans to the 55 million (mostly civilians) massacred in world war two.

 

 

Not like you to be simplistic, Albert, but to say (blame) the west ''created'' al-qaeda is quite wrong. This type of scripturally-inspired terrorism and expansionism has been around for centuries, hence the crusades. AQ aren't reacting to western oppression, it's the other way around as they (AQ), are an extension of an ideology which threatens the very basis of the civilised world, today. The Middle-East and its continuous sectarian violence proves this.

 

As you say, this kind of martyrdom, which is how they percieve death for their cause, has been around for millenia and is perpetuated by an adherence to scriptures which they claim justifies their actions throughout the world. Thing is, since WW2 and the fight against another ideology, Nazism, the west and its allies have realised that war isn't the only way to sort out the world's problems but has become sometimes necessary to protect developing countries from being swamped by invasive ideologies. The Third World and less strong cultures have little defence when it comes to fending off invasive terrorist elements. AQ, with its many affiliates realise this and see the more vulnerable population centres as easy targets and would appear intent on expanding their aims through de-stabilisation by violence; we see this kind of pernicious influence in Syria, Egypt, Somalia, et al, and now Kenya. It's a battle for supremacy and it's getting worse.

[Shake me up Judy]

I deplore the violence, but am a seeker of solutions. Here's a different, hypothetical, question...if the UK had sent troops in to the island to, say, drive out a resurgent MecVannin, would it be a surprise to see MecVannin fighting back in any way it could?

 

It would be a surprise to see Mec Vannin doing anything at the moment.

[Lxxx]

 

Spare me the emotional response please, I thought you were a little above that. My point was, and you know it, is that there are all too many countries sticking their own troops into countries without UN approval.

 

Moreover, in its haste to find replacement industries following the ending of the cold war, the west have created their own invisible monster in the form of Al Qaeda, along with multi-billion pound sets of security industries to support it. The equivalent of its own 'monster from the id' (Forbidden Planet).

 

The fact is, people have been willing to die for their own causes and massacre civilians for millenia, from the Romans to the 55 million (mostly civilians) massacred in world war two.

 

 

Not like you to be simplistic, Albert, but to say (blame) the west ''created'' al-qaeda is quite wrong. This type of scripturally-inspired terrorism and expansionism has been around for centuries, hence the crusades. AQ aren't reacting to western oppression, it's the other way around as they (AQ), are an extension of an ideology which threatens the very basis of the civilised world, today. The Middle-East and its continuous sectarian violence proves this.

 

As you say, this kind of martyrdom, which is how they percieve death for their cause, has been around for millenia and is perpetuated by an adherence to scriptures which they claim justifies their actions throughout the world. Thing is, since WW2 and the fight against another ideology, Nazism, the west and its allies have realised that war isn't the only way to sort out the world's problems but has become sometimes necessary to protect developing countries from being swamped by invasive ideologies. The Third World and less strong cultures have little defence when it comes to fending off invasive terrorist elements. AQ, with its many affiliates realise this and see the more vulnerable population centres as easy targets and would appear intent on expanding their aims through de-stabilisation by violence; we see this kind of pernicious influence in Syria, Egypt, Somalia, et al, and now Kenya. It's a battle for supremacy and it's getting worse.

 

Which the west perpetuate with their support of AQ, Muslim Brotherhood and others whenever it suits their geopolitical interests.

[Lxxx]

http://tompride.co.uk/daily-mail-fail-newspaper-uses-false-photo-in-kenya-shopping-centre-article

 

Daily Fail caught fabricating 'news' again. Lazy journalism.