Lonan3 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 As an aside, who fired a canon prematurely, in Captain Mainwaring style, at 3 minutes to 11 the other day - I pissed myself laughing but I hope nobody ......etc Fortunately, incidents like this are........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torry loon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A couple of days ago, some aged people stood in silence on Douglas Promenade and may well have brought to mind some of their dearest friends and closest relatives who were taken from them long before their time ought to have been due. Those people didn't need to go to the battlefields in Europe, North Africa and Asia to stir loving memories - nor did they need to soar into the skies or plunge into the depths of the world's oceans. They were able to stand beside a monument and let their own minds take them to the places, scattered all around the globe, where their loved ones lie. What a ridiculous shallow argument. What a ridiculous shallow analogy. If you have a genuine reason for saying that, I'd really like to hear it. If, as I strongly suspect, you're condemning it because you'd rather stamp your little foot and scream "But we MUST have a memorial garden!" then I'd rather you just fuck off! You suspect wrong and your coarse language is offensive. Regarding a memorial I am pretty ambivalent but I am interested. I am interested in the debate, feelings and arguments put forward. Your argument is ridiculous. Would you snear at Twin Towers victims with such an analogy and talk about soaring into the sky and plunging to depths? Not quite the same thing I realise but a damn site nearer than those that died in a World War. I think you should leave the poetic type argument for those better equipped to use it. It makes you look a silly billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 How many people from the Isle of Man persihed in the Summerland inferno? According to the list of missing published here, 3 or possibly 4. Actually if you look at the more detailed list of casualties later in that report, only three of those who died had local addresses and all of those we Summerland staff who had only been on the Island a comparatively short time and had few local connections. I'm afraid that in some ways this made it easier for the Island to bury the memory[1] - there were no grieving families around. That absence of immediate victims also made it easier for the Manx establishment to go into its usual mode of making sure that no one was ever held to have any responsibility for anything. Like most people I think that a memorial garden would not necessarily be right there - it's hardly the best place for a garden and would probably get even less use than the one where the current memorial is. Similarly it's not a great place for leisure facilities - the tourist accommodation that once lined the Promenades and made it so is now mostly gone ((and to be brutal the horse trams that fed them should really go too). However I think it would be fitting to have some sort of memorial at the site - there is a sort of authenticity in commemoration at the place where something happened. That's why there are First World War memorials on the battlefields as well as where the soldiers came from. Any memorial would not need to be particularly elaborate - something like the King's Cross Fire Memorial would be enough. [1] I'm not saying that it was forgotten - it certainly wasn't. But there was a sort of guilty understanding that it was not to be talked about much. Some of this was a sort of superstitious fear that discussion would affect the tourist industry (hence the speedy rebuilding), though I suspect that the industry would have continued to decline either way. But more was a sort of helplessness about the way in which everyone knew that faults would never be admitted and even objecting to this would be hopeless (and possibly damaging). These feelings help explain the appalling wait until there was any memorial and the inadequacy of the one that was originally erected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A couple of days ago, some aged people stood in silence on Douglas Promenade and may well have brought to mind some of their dearest friends and closest relatives who were taken from them long before their time ought to have been due. Those people didn't need to go to the battlefields in Europe, North Africa and Asia to stir loving memories - nor did they need to soar into the skies or plunge into the depths of the world's oceans. They were able to stand beside a monument and let their own minds take them to the places, scattered all around the globe, where their loved ones lie. What a ridiculous shallow argument. What a ridiculous shallow analogy. If you have a genuine reason for saying that, I'd really like to hear it. If, as I strongly suspect, you're condemning it because you'd rather stamp your little foot and scream "But we MUST have a memorial garden!" then I'd rather you just fuck off! You suspect wrong and your coarse language is offensive. Regarding a memorial I am pretty ambivalent but I am interested. I am interested in the debate, feelings and arguments put forward. Your argument is ridiculous. Would you snear at Twin Towers victims with such an analogy and talk about soaring into the sky and plunging to depths? Not quite the same thing I realise but a damn site nearer than those that died in a World War. I think you should leave the poetic type argument for those better equipped to use it. It makes you look a silly billy. You obviously don't know much about Lonan3, do you ?. In fact you look to be the "silly billy" for saying that. I agree 100% with Lonan's post #158, as I am sure most others do too. Some on here are becoming obsessed by this piece of history (yes, that is what it is) and seem to have a rather unhealthy fixation about Summerland, very weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A couple of days ago, some aged people stood in silence on Douglas Promenade and may well have brought to mind some of their dearest friends and closest relatives who were taken from them long before their time ought to have been due. Those people didn't need to go to the battlefields in Europe, North Africa and Asia to stir loving memories - nor did they need to soar into the skies or plunge into the depths of the world's oceans. They were able to stand beside a monument and let their own minds take them to the places, scattered all around the globe, where their loved ones lie. Surely, then, a memorial that is no more than a few yards from the site of this tragedy ought to be sufficient for those who wish to recall, and to show respect, for those who went missing from their lives on that terrible night? Auschwitz-Birkenau. Do you think we should demolish it and build apartments for nouveau riche tax dodging pricks there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Nouveau riche tax dodgers? They may be dodging UK tax, come here and they will be paying tax to the IOM - surely that's what we want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Nouveau riche tax dodgers? They may be dodging UK tax, come here and they will be paying tax to the IOM - surely that's what we want! You really think tax dodgers are the sort of people we'll get much tax out of? And why is money so important? I'm sure we get a bit of tax money off the pricks who live in the apartments on King Edward Road which replaced White City, but all things being considered I'd rather have White City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I am quite sure that a resident of a "luxury apartment" will pay more tax than a burger flipper Money is important to pay for pensions, roads, hospitals, police, clean water ........ TJ you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Do you really believe that all those who live in King Edward Rd apartments are pricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Nouveau riche tax dodgers? They may be dodging UK tax, come here and they will be paying tax to the IOM - surely that's what we want! You really think tax dodgers are the sort of people we'll get much tax out of? And why is money so important? I'm sure we get a bit of tax money off the pricks who live in the apartments on King Edward Road which replaced White City, but all things being considered I'd rather have White City. As in Sea Cliff Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon selector Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 deleted for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I didn't realise a person's value in society was measured by how much tax they pay or how much money they have. Bringing in more people to live here increases the cost of all the services you mentioned, so bringing in more money to pay for the higher cost doesn't really accomplish much. "Pricks" was just a figure of speech to indicate my dislike for the apartments rather than their specific occupants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishwasa Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Auschwitz-Birkenau. Do you think we should demolish it and build apartments for nouveau riche tax dodging pricks there? Are you suggesting Auschwitz has similarities to Summerland? I didn't realise the holocaust was essentially an accident exacerbated by poor design. And the numbers involved were significantly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Auschwitz-Birkenau. Do you think we should demolish it and build apartments for nouveau riche tax dodging pricks there? Are you suggesting Auschwitz has similarities to Summerland? I didn't realise the holocaust was essentially an accident exacerbated by poor design. And the numbers involved were significantly different. They were both a tragic loss of life and I feel for the victims of both. Numbers and cause of the deaths are really beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishwasa Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I agree they were both a tragic loss of life. The scales were in a different league and the causes have nothing in common. Auschwitz is already maintained as a memorial. Summerland was originally demolished and a new version built. That has also been demolished. There is a memorial just down the road to those that lost their lives. I do not see similarities. Nor do I believe you 'feel' for the victims of either. I believe it more likely you think, 'Gosh, that's really terrible, really sad' and move on. That is not 'feeling' for the victims of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torry loon Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Summerland wasn't actually rebuilt. It wasn't demolished. It was refurbished. Although there was obviously a new roof and that. The swimming pool was back in business in just a couple of weeks or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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