Summerland Site For "commemorative Garden"-Yea Or Nay?

[manxman1980]

A memorial of all of the misdeeds and criminal irresponsibility along with decisions based on corruption and self interest rather than best practice would be exactly what is required.

 

The analysis of what was done wrong in the case of Summerland should be a mark of Cain for the whole Island. A memorial should be the replacement for Summerland, a memorial that is not just about the names of the victims, it should name the guilty and incompetent and the corrupt.

 

It would be a pretty big memorial though..

 

There were a number of mistakes but remember that you are judging with hindsight and some of the components may not have been foreseeable at the time. You could therefore damage the reputation of people who were not guilty, incompetent or corrupt but merely doing the best job they could with the information available at that time.

 

As an example think how many buildings contain Asbestos. A substance we now know has major health implications, however, when it was used these were not known and the properties it has offered an array of benefits.

[paswt]

I take the view that it was known for years that asbestos "had health implications" but was continued to be used for economic reasons . The TV programme "Alice a fight for life" (if memory serves) that put the skids under the asbestos industry .

[irishone]

 

A memorial of all of the misdeeds and criminal irresponsibility along with decisions based on corruption and self interest rather than best practice would be exactly what is required.

 

The analysis of what was done wrong in the case of Summerland should be a mark of Cain for the whole Island. A memorial should be the replacement for Summerland, a memorial that is not just about the names of the victims, it should name the guilty and incompetent and the corrupt.

 

It would be a pretty big memorial though..

 

There were a number of mistakes but remember that you are judging with hindsight and some of the components may not have been foreseeable at the time. You could therefore damage the reputation of people who were not guilty, incompetent or corrupt but merely doing the best job they could with the information available at that time.

 

As an example think how many buildings contain Asbestos. A substance we now know has major health implications, however, when it was used these were not known and the properties it has offered an array of benefits.

"I think the fire was a disaster not primarily because of the unexpected and unlooked for behaviour of two of the newer materials Galbestos and Oroglas though these were serious enough but because a material that was like fibreboard whose behaviour WAS WELL KNOWN was used where it should not have been...."

[manxman1980]

"I think the fire was a disaster not primarily because of the unexpected and unlooked for behaviour of two of the newer materials Galbestos and Oroglas though these were serious enough but because a material that was like fibreboard whose behaviour WAS WELL KNOWN was used where it should not have been...."

 

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I have said elsewhere that the extent of the disaster was due to a string of events rather than one specific cause. I believe that is highlighed in many subsequent reports into the disaster. Alpha Piper was the same. A string of faults rather than one.

[irishone]

 

"I think the fire was a disaster not primarily because of the unexpected and unlooked for behaviour of two of the newer materials Galbestos and Oroglas though these were serious enough but because a material that was like fibreboard whose behaviour WAS WELL KNOWN was used where it should not have been...."

 

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I have said elsewhere that the extent of the disaster was due to a string of events rather than one specific cause. I believe that is highlighed in many subsequent reports into the disaster. Alpha Piper was the same. A string of faults rather than one.

That is interesting, I think of the Summerland Disaster as a heavy chain composed of many links.which those of us affected will have to carry around for the rest of our lives, even though we were not responsible for forging any one of those links. The question is which link began the chain.

[manxman1980]

That is interesting, I think of the Summerland Disaster as a heavy chain composed of many links.which those of us affected will have to carry around for the rest of our lives, even though we were not responsible for forging any one of those links. The question is which link began the chain.

 

I have no doubt about the burden that you and other survivors carry which is one of the reasons I do not wish to derail this thread further. To an extent the events and decisions leading up to Piper Alpha and Summerland are worth comparison. There is an awful lot of information to try and condense into an internet forum though.

[irishone]

 

That is interesting, I think of the Summerland Disaster as a heavy chain composed of many links.which those of us affected will have to carry around for the rest of our lives, even though we were not responsible for forging any one of those links. The question is which link began the chain.

 

I have no doubt about the burden that you and other survivors carry which is one of the reasons I do not wish to derail this thread further. To an extent the events and decisions leading up to Piper Alpha and Summerland are worth comparison. There is an awful lot of information to try and condense into an internet forum though.

You are quite correct. I also feel that there are certain similarities. Thankfully though-the families of the victims of the Piper Alpha Disaster did not have to wait 40 years for a decent memorial to be erected. I am extremely pleased with the new memorial to the Summerland victims-I'm not sure who chose the design but they are to be highly commended. The fact will always remain that it took 40 years to achieve.In all fairness if everyone had pushed for it, something might have been done a long time ago. It may have been that there were requests for a new memorial over the years-I don't know, I can't pass judgement without having all the facts. You are right manxman we are deviating from the thread!!!

[Cliff]

Nay for me.

Just don't see the point.

- The council would have to look after it and another burden to the rate payers

- There's another one already and looks ok to me

- May as well have something worthwhile and of interest to the public including children

[thesultanofsheight]

Unless you're an embarrassing bus, tram or train masturbator the Manx have a pretty dismal respect for their own history, and we will probably end up giving the site to the lowest bidder to concrete over in some shit get rich quick scheme.

 

The existing Summerland memorial is crap and an embarrassment and we need to do something better, but on a small part of the site only, with the bulk of it used for something of benefit to the community.

 

The reality is though that it will end up as more wankers apartments, sold to tax dodging wankers, who have no interest in the IOM, and providing no benefit to anyone else but the developer that slings them up and who bought the site for sod all off the civil servants who are supposed to work in the interests of the Manx people.

[Gladys]

Be in no doubt, Irishone, the general feeling of anyone who remembers that night is not to sweep it under the carpet or not to ponder on the lives lost or affected to this day.

 

The memorial is in each person's mind. We do remember it, many with far worse recollections than I have. For those who live here, that end of the prom is a memorial never to be forgotten. It doesn't matter what is put there, it just will not be forgotten.

 

As you say, there is now a more fitting memorial to replace the previous plaque. But, and I choose my words carefully, what could possibly be considered as appropriate? How do you memorialise so many lives lost and devastatingly affected? And, how many of those directly affected will take comfort directly from any memorial, no matter what form it may take?

 

Take comfort from the fact that you are not forgotten. Far from it and the grandest memorial will not change that; nor, in truth, will it inform future generations who have no first hand knowledge. Only those who experienced it can do that.

[irishone]

Nay for me.

Just don't see the point.

- The council would have to look after it and another burden to the rate payers

- There's another one already and looks ok to me

- May as well have something worthwhile and of interest to the public including children

I recently e-mailed Mr cretney and suggested "A place for the children"

[Lxxx]

All immaterial. Developer found. Luxury apartments for the highly paid Pokerstars crew to walk to work. Game over. Move along.

[spook]

The risks associated with Oroglas were known, specific fire safety had been taken where it had been used before even to the extent of having water drench fire extinguishing systems in place.

t

These risks, and others, were either ignored or were not investigated.

The whole buggers muddle that was Summerland should be memorialised.

Memorialised as a constant reminder to everyone involved in such projects today not to cut corners and if you don't know about something new of being used in a novel application then FIND OUT.

[Albert Tatlock]

If we memorialised every human mistake there would be a memorial every few feet.

 

This was over 40 years ago now, and we have a memorial. So it is time to move on...to our next mistakes. And there will be many, as mistakes and accidents are often the fabric of progress.

[Lxxx]

 

 

The risks associated with Oroglas were known, specific fire safety had been taken where it had been used before even to the extent of having water drench fire extinguishing systems in place.

t

These risks, and others, were either ignored or were not investigated.

The whole buggers muddle that was Summerland should be memorialised.

Memorialised as a constant reminder to everyone involved in such projects today not to cut corners and if you don't know about something new of being used in a novel application then FIND OUT.

But there is already a memorial. How many is enough?