I Like Pope Francis

[paswt]

Paswt, not quite sure where to start - I did a bioengineering unit at Uni (many years ago now!) but my Prof very much agreed with you - he said an awful lot of medicine was keeping the patient comfortable as the body got better itself.

 

But sorry, I do think people should be ridiculed for believing in Demonic Possession and for evil spirits having a role in illness.

 

The germ theory of illness is, along with the theories of gravitation and evolution, a centre piece of modern science. I'll agree that people's mental state do have huge influences on their health, as is apparent in the placebo effect, and so receiving religious comfort has a role for some people in healing, but that is a very different from seeing a supernatural influence - this is pure superstition with not only no evidence for it, but huge amounts of evidence refuting it.

 

Pope Francis does have a bit of history in dog whistling about exorcisms - he uses the words blessing, comforting, laying on hands, but the old demonic exorcists wink and nudge and see him upholding their superstitions. Link

I am obliged by your opinion but that is all it is ," your opinion".

 

To offer an alternative view is fine to stoop to ridicule is, I feel, 'unfortunate', unpleasant and not particularly clever. I think it says more about you than those you choose to denigrate .

 

So you went to "Uni"and had a "Prof" (who agreed with the views of someone who left school at 15).

 

I know of someone who went to "Uni" then went on and is now a "Doc" but is as silly as a wagon load of monkeys. I have a "post graduate diploma" but I don't think that gives me greater credibility .

 

Folk who have had the benefit(?) of "education" aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box, I've found.

 

It's entirely fair to criticise individual leaders/clerics of any religious organisation for their acts or omissions .

[mojomonkey]

Religion - Polarising opinion since its inception.

[Albert Tatlock]

I've embraced worse in Peel.

[Chinahand]

Pawst, I'm going to come back to you - do you think you should respectfully accept the beliefs of a person who says demons cause illness?

 

Do you really think such views should be taken seriously?

 

Or do you think such a person should be challenged and asked to provide some evidence as to why they brand some people to be in the possession of evil?

 

Link 1, Link 2.

 

And angels?

[quilp]

And there's this.... http://www.secularism.org.uk/96863/html

 

Utterly ridiculous nonsense perpetuated by people with influence. There is little regard for intellectual honesty when it comes to religion; the devout have no need to question. It's hard to believe that there are millions of people who actually fall for it- frightening, in fact!

[paswt]

 

 

There should be no place for such superstition in the modern world

 

 

We understand the causes of disease and know it isn't due to demons and spirits. Scientific advances are real and provide us with a better understanding of the universe than credulous bronze age goat herders.

 

Chinahand you are now asking if you should take the views of those who have a "religion" seriously.

 

It is entirely up to you who's views you take seriously, and I would venture to suggest that if you want to post a contrary view that is entirely reasonable.

 

Why do you feel that any contrary belief (religious or otherwise) to your own entitles you to attempt to silence that opinion by posting calculated offensive comments in a futile attempt to ridicule other posters , and if challenged moderate your language and move the goalposts .

 

I haven't looked at your links, I cannot be bothered to waste my time indulging someone I consider to be a pompous bully so far up him/herself that they see it as their god given right to dictate to the rest of us.

[Mr. Sausages]

paswt, why make offensive comments? Looks like a futile attempt to ridicule another poster.

[paswt]

paswt, why make offensive comments? Looks like a futile attempt to ridicule another poster.

I was trying to be helpful, but you may be right lol, thank you for sharing that with me.

 

It would be a great gift to see ourselves as others see us.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Let's give the guy a break for fook sake; he's not responsible for 2,000 yrs of what Catholic Church douchebaggery.

[Thomas Jefferson]

But sorry, I do think people should be ridiculed for believing in Demonic Possession and for evil spirits having a role in illness.

 

The germ theory of illness is, along with the theories of gravitation and evolution, a centre piece of modern science. I'll agree that people's mental state do have huge influences on their health, as is apparent in the placebo effect, and so receiving religious comfort has a role for some people in healing, but that is a very different from seeing a supernatural influence - this is pure superstition with not only no evidence for it, but huge amounts of evidence refuting it.

 

Pope Francis does have a bit of history in dog whistling about exorcisms - he uses the words blessing, comforting, laying on hands, but the old demonic exorcists wink and nudge and see him upholding their superstitions. Link

 

The Catholic Church does not consider illness to be caused by demonic possession. The Catholic Church accepts evolution. You need to keep up with the real world and stop living in the 14th century.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Religion - Polarising opinion since its inception.

 

Atheism - cynicism and ignorance disguised as scepticism since it's inception.

[CrossRoss]

The jury is still out on this guy Francis

 

He is an improvement on Maledict the nazi kiddie fiddler protector and general all round embarassment who would appear to be still hiding in the attic to avoid arrest.

[Chinahand]

The Catholic Church does not consider illness to be caused by demonic possession.

Ah, the devil is in the detail TJ - I totally accept that Catholic doctrine does not generally connect illness with possession, but it is more complicated than that.

 

Check out the Catholic Encyclopaedia:

 

The demoniacs were often afflicted with other maladies as well, but there is surely nothing improbable in the view of Catholic theologians that the demons often afflicted those who were already diseased, or that the very fact of obsession or possession produced these diseases as a natural consequence (cf. Job 2:7; Görres "Die christ. mystik", iv; Lesêtre in "Dict. de la bible" s.v. Démoniaques).

 

Illness does not necessarily mean possession, but possession can mean illness.

 

The Catholic Church accepts evolution. You need to keep up with the real world and stop living in the 14th century.

As with illness and demons the Catholic Churches position concerning evolution is complex - Catholic doctrine is that human beings are not just the result of a natural process of evolution, and hence simply evolved animals. Catholic doctrine holds that true human beings can only be the result of a divine intervention. How that fits in with their acceptance of hominid evolution is complex, but basically Catholic doctrine does see some special intervention and hence its view that the story of Adam and Eve is much more than just parable or myth.

[Chinahand]

Chinahand ... someone I consider to be a pompous bully so far up him/herself that they see it as their god given right to dictate to the rest of us.

Aaah, come on Paswt, don't hold yourself back, tell me what you really think about me!

 

 

Don't you like me expressing my opinion ... oh well.

 

I always try and provide evidence as to why I hold my opinions, and if you don't want to read them that's your prerogative, but ... like bleat.

 

If I disagree with a person's opinion I ask them to explain themselves and provide evidence to back up their claims.

 

If you don't like my tone, well sorry, but heck this is the internet and I think I'm a lot politer than many - this is a discussion forum, and I'm challenging people's views and asking them to explain them. You don't like the way I do it. Heh ho. I think I'll live.

 

Personally I get loads of enjoyment listening to other people's opinions on here - and most of that comes from people expressing their opinions robustly and clearly, with them providing back up as to why they think as they do.

 

I try not to name call, but it is true I do use ridicule for things I consider ridiculous - in this case demonic possession - I'll keep digging if I may - do you really think I should be taking it seriously? Why?

 

That's me, if people say something I disagree with I'll go at it to get an explanation as to why, while showing why I disagree.

 

If that make's me up my own ass - so be it.

 

Oh and I'm male - no need for the he/she.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Ah, the devil is in the detail TJ - I totally accept that Catholic doctrine does not generally connect illness with possession, but it is more complicated than that.

 

Check out the Catholic Encyclopaedia:

 

The Catholic Encyclopaedia is over 100 years old and written over 50 years before the Second Vatican Council. The link between illness and sin or possession is hardly unique to Catholicism; it's a fundamental part of the mainstream Christian doctrine of Original Sin.

 

As with illness and demons the Catholic Churches position concerning evolution is complex - Catholic doctrine is that human beings are not just the result of a natural process of evolution, and hence simply evolved animals. Catholic doctrine holds that true human beings can only be the result of a divine intervention. How that fits in with their acceptance of hominid evolution is complex, but basically Catholic doctrine does see some special intervention and hence its view that the story of Adam and Eve is much more than just parable or myth.

 

Evolution by natural selection does not preclude divine intervention. I don't see what your problem is with this. If the window of possibility is open for extraterrestrials to screw around with our development, why not God?