Declassified Documents Confirm Thatcher Strategy Against Num

[Shake me up Judy]

The BBC have just reported the disclosure of confidential papers which tell the real story of Thatcher, MacGregor, and the Miners Strike. It's thirty years too late, and there were many, including the BBC, who knew the truth of the government's strategy against the miners, but chose to suppress it. Had they done their job properly there might have been a negotiated settlement to the strike months earlier, and MacGregor would have been booted down the road a lot sooner, but I think the BBC were on the run from the Thatcher government at this time.

[chuter ede]

There is alot of abject nonsense talked about the miners'strike. The previous Labour Administration got rid of more miners than the Tories. As for New Labour their commitment to deep mined coal was zero. Scargill could have got the best sweetheart deal in history.

[Thomas Jefferson]

In case anybody can't be arsed looking this up for themselves:

Archives reveal confidential government information from 30 years ago

 

Newly released government documents from 30 years ago are shedding light on how Margaret Thatcher dealt with some of the most difficult issues of her time in Downing Street.

 

The papers show that during the miners' strike her government considered calling out troops and that the miners' leader Arthur Scargill may have been right to claim there was a "hit-list" of pits marked for closure.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25596198

 

Archives reveal pits closure plan

 

Newly released cabinet papers have revealed Margaret Thatcher's government considered sending in army troops at the height of the miners' strike in 1984.

 

They also show mineworkers' union leader Arthur Scargill may have been right to claim there was a "secret hit-list" of more than 70 pits marked for closure.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25590443 [includes video]

 

 

Cabinet papers reveal 'secret coal pits closure plan'

Newly released cabinet papers from 1984 reveal mineworkers' union leader Arthur Scargill may have been right to claim there was a "secret hit-list" of more than 70 pits marked for closure.

The government and National Coal Board said at the time they wanted to close 20. But the documents reveal a plan to shut 75 mines over three years.

 

A key adviser to then-PM Margaret Thatcher denies any cover-up claims.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25549596

 

Tories secretly wanted to cut millions from Scottish budget

 

Details have emerged of attempts by ministers to make secret cuts to the Scottish budget during Margaret Thatcher's premiership.

Cabinet papers released under the 30-year rule show senior figures believed Scotland was over-funded by £900m.

 

John Redwood, then a Downing Street adviser, wanted cuts of £500m to Scotland's budget, the papers reveal.

 

Then Scottish Secretary George Younger opposed deep cuts, sparking a cabinet row.

 

The government documents from 1984, released by the National Archives, show an in-depth needs assessment study was proposed by the Treasury but rejected by Mrs Thatcher because of "real political dangers".

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25589303

[Shake me up Judy]

There is alot of abject nonsense talked about the miners'strike. The previous Labour Administration got rid of more miners than the Tories. As for New Labour their commitment to deep mined coal was zero. Scargill could have got the best sweetheart deal in history.

 

There had been pit closures since at least the 1920's and the time of the General Strike, but the Labour Government of the 70's, or later under Blair, would never have planned and carried out the wholesale shut-down and destruction of the mines, and much else of Britain's heavy industry besides. The Thatcher government's plan was to move Britain to a post-industrial finance and service economy, and they largely succeeded.

[pongo]

Pragmatically and with hindsight (though a few wise spokes on the left also said this at the time), Mr Scargill should have held a strike ballot. He would have won the strike ballot. Then the NUM's funds could not have been seized and the union would have been able to support the striker's and their families. Not holding a ballot was a tactical and strategic mistake.

 

The NUM did not hold a strike ballot because the leadership was opposed to the legislation which had been introduced which required a ballot in order for a strike to be legitimate. It was bonkers legislation (you elect people to decide for you - the same as referenda are anti democratic) - but the legislation existed and without a vote the strike was going to be difficult to sustain in the face of the legislation.

 

It's a great pity that the mines were shut down for political reasons. Though, no doubt, today the climate change alarmists would be calling for their closure anyhow.

[pongo]

The Thatcher government's plan was to move Britain to a post-industrial finance and service economy, and they largely succeeded.

People often forget that it was currency instability during the early Thatcher years which took out many perfectly good British companies. You cannot price a contract if the currency is not stable. Which is ironic given that many middle of the road industrialists supported the Tories because they feared currency instability. It is also why much of the CBI was was pro-EEC and therefore pro-Tory despite the disaster which was the first Thatcher administration (at a time when Labour was essentially anti the EEC).

[chuter ede]

Scargill's problem was that he had called a national strike on a number of occasions and was voted down by the peasants in secret ballots. Democracy is wasted on some people.

 

The rules were changed to reduce the previous majority for a strike from 55% to 51%. Basically he tried to use flying pickets to force working miners to learn the error of their ways. This went pear shaped in Nottinghamshire thus no national strike.

 

At the conclusion he refused to vote on whether to continue or stop the strike. Next year he was back to his old ways and called again for a national strike.

 

Both sides misbehaved and no-one felt good at the conclusion apart from the right wing lunatics that Thatcher was now listening to. The result was poll tax and political hubris.

[alibaba]

This is a stunning research effort here TJ, well done, and thanks.

 

In case anybody can't be arsed looking this up for themselves:

 

 

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25596198

 

 

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25590443 [includes video]

 

 

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25549596

 

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25589303

[Thomas Jefferson]

This is a stunning research effort here TJ, well done, and thanks.

 

You're welcome.

[Bananaman]

Coal is shit! Nuclear Power ftw, especially if involvles no more unsightly carbuncles that are windmills.

[John Wright]

McGreggor and Thatcher on the one side were involved in a close down the mines and defeat the NUM/unions campaign ( due to what the miners had done to Heath), Scargill was involved in a megalomaniac and paranoid class warfare defeat the Tories campaign. Whether the truth had come out about what was wanted on either side there was no common ground and no chance of resolution. Thatcher and her cabinet, advisers and spin doctors lied, Scargill manipulated the rules, for his own ends. Not much to choose between either side.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Sounds like they were both engaged in class warfare.

[John Wright]

I agree TJ.

 

The approach of the NUM in meetings was staggeringly arrogant, and inept, every point was met with Scargill demanding an assurance that no mines would be closed and no jobs lost. Without that assurance no talking.

 

Scargill had got the NUM executive to agree only he should speak or ask questions, McGahey, his deputy, sat there and read the paper, and when one member dared to speak he was slapped down by Scargill.

 

Shows 1980's British industrial relations and economic politics in a very poor light, totally impossible to discuss, let alone agree, anything because it was perceived as class war

[manx-person]

I agree TJ.

 

The approach of the NUM in meetings was staggeringly arrogant, and inept, every point was met with Scargill demanding an assurance that no mines would be closed and no jobs lost. Without that assurance no talking.

 

Scargill had got the NUM executive to agree only he should speak or ask questions, McGahey, his deputy, sat there and read the paper, and when one member dared to speak he was slapped down by Scargill.

 

Shows 1980's British industrial relations and economic politics in a very poor light, totally impossible to discuss, let alone agree, anything because it was perceived as class war

It's just that in these situations, "the state" with its unlimited resources need to use their powers carefully and within the law.Once MI5 are starting to get involved, and there are secret selectively minuted meetings it's a worry. The violence on the picket lines reflected badly on both NUM and the police.

 

Let's hope that you are right (or is that left!) John that disputes of this nature are consigned to the past.

[ballaughbiker]

Scargill thought he could effectively bring down the democratically* elected government just as Gormley/McGahey had effectively (with the help of other unions) done with the early 70s Heath government. Whilst this is in itself completely unsupportable, without a ballot, it could not be allowed to happen.

 

Some of us are old enough to remember the rampant inflation stoked by 20s% wage increases of the early 70s and the three day week (could have easily become 2 days) when Britain plc was on the ropes. I have been a union member all my working life but 40 years ago, their power had become completely destructive to everyone's interests and had to be curbed. Many ex-miners I know agree with this and most have done very well since although it's clear that good communities especially in South Yorkshire were also permanently trashed.

 

I personally know at least 5 people who lost everything in The Strike and one who did very well out of it (a copper who has just retired). What Thatcher did by using the police was despicable but let's not forget that McGahey wanted the help of the armed forces in the previous strike. BOTH sides have an unenviable record but it is unfortunately human nature to forget the actions of the side working towards your political affiliations.

 

Edit : * I hope using this word isn't the trigger for the usual suspect(s) to lecture us for nth time on democracy.