manxman1980 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 No different to compensation for incarcerating someone. We do that for time spend in gaol, why not do it for time whilst under arrest? Arrest and imprisonment are two entirely different things. You are arrested upon suspicion that you have committed or been involved in an offence. You are imprisoned following a trial where you have been found guilty. If you are convicted and imprisoned wrongly then I agree that some form of compensation is in order as you will have potentially lost your career/job as a result. I do not agree with compensating people for simply being arrested. Where do you think the money will come from by the way? That's right us as taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 But even if you don't take my politics on board I don't mean to be pedantic -- well, okay, I do -- but it sounds like you're not taking your politics on board either, if you would compensate him with capital ("the condition for capital is wage-labour"). They should compensate him with a graceful apology, assuming he's innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 What about compensation for wrongful arrest? One arrest and a day or two away from work can already have serious implications for someone's job, reputation, etc... Also, wrongful or not, the UK fuzz loves to put you and your DNA on any of their multiple data bases after arrest, because for them you're never really innocent. The UK has reached a point where people like this can potentially cause you a lot of legal trouble: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/show-me-the-poo-tower-hamlets-park-official-calls-for-police-backup-over-noncompliance-of--female-over-mystery-dog-foul-9092395.html Laughable story, yes. Some police reject with an inferiority complex calling for backup over dog poo. Not so laughable if you consider that jumped up clipboard soldiers like him can potentially get you arrested over nothing - and that's the bottom end of the scale. All of them, from that dog dirt dummy to anti terror fuzz should be aware that they can and will be held accountable if they screw up. Like any job, if they screw up badly, it simply must have serious consequences. Let's say someone really messed up in that diplomat's case and gave the wrong address - that person should be severely reprimanded, if not fired. The public must be able to trust and believe that the police work to the highest standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Wait, you criticise them for sticking to strict procedure but then propose they are sued if they make a mistake. Sounds no win to me. And where does it say this arrest was by force? I've been arrested at my home (not recently I hasten to add) and it was all very civil. I was guilty though :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Arrest and imprisonment are different things. But my understanding is that we don't compensation people simply because they were determined guilty. If I am incorrect, then I don't think that should the sole reason or primary reason why compensation should be made. Of course, being determined to be guilty is far more serious, but there are those issues I mentioned - force, loss of control, and humiliation. As said, I find this to be extremely serious. And I am not necessarily talking of big money or maybe not even money at all. But I don't put much stock in verbal or written apologies. TJ - I don't see any incompatitibility with my political beliefs here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As someone who works in the Employment Law field you can believe me when I say that no action would be taken in the event of an employee being arrested as long as the employee was honest about what was going on and that the arrest did not damage the employers reputation. Most reputable employers will not act at the point of arrest as any action by them may potentially prejudice a later court case. The Police often advise employers of this because if the person is prosecuted it can undermine the case. Most likely action would be suspension (which should be paid) pending the outcome of an investigation. If there is no harm done and the employee is innocent then they will in all likelihood return to work. An employer, however, does not have to prove beyond reasonable doub they only have to have a reasonable belief. So potentially an alleged act of theft could be dismissed by the Police as they do not have enough evidence, however, an employer may act and dismiss because they have a lower test. If an employee loses their job as a result of any of this they can already go through the Employment Tribunal process to claim compensation. No need to sue the Police as well. ETA: This is a very simplified overview but the important part is the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 We don't always fully appreciate the psychological impact that an incident like this, or any intrusive or unwanted contact with the police, can have on a person, and on society. If you've ever been stopped and searched or otherwise detained for poor reasons, or been dragged through the legal system for some minor offense, or suffered physical abuse at the hands of the police then you may understand how harrowing the experience can be. As LDV was saying, it involves loss of control, liberty, humiliation, fear, anxiety. This engenders negative attitudes towards law enforcement in the victim and probably in their family and friends too. It creates an opinion that the police and justice system are not benevolent protectors but threatening bullies who abuse their powers. The antagonism this causes can become a problem, and we can see its effects in the Brixton riots for example. But I'm getting carried away; the black people of Brixton were subject to prolonged persecution because of their race. The kid in the story had only been targeted apparently as a result of error, although it seems like there is more going on here. A 36-year-old woman -- said by newspapers to be the magistrate's daughter -- was arrested later on suspicion of an offence under anti-terror laws and remained in custody Wednesday after police obtained a warrant of further detention. Reports said there were apparent Internet links between the magistrate's daughter and the raided house next to the diplomat's home.Police said the searches were carried out as a precautionary measure and there was nothing to suggest the public was at risk. Was he using her internet, or vice versa? In any case it begs the question of what offence either of them were suspected of having committed under the Terrorism Act. This is the really interesting bit of the story. The Terrorism Act includes very wide ranging and sometimes very vaguely defined offences which include "encouragement of terrorism", which can mean simply commending or expressing approval of acts of terrorism, and making "terrorist threats". So has one of them attracted police interest for having transgressed of one of these notoriously abusable laws which we have seen used to arrest train-spotters, hecklers, protesters, journalists, and keyboard warriors who pose no real terrorist threat. On the subject of the supposed error, if someone really fucked up and got the address wrong I would expect that the person responsible would lose their job, but if there was genuine confusion caused by sharing internet or something like that then the case for disciplinary action becomes more difficult to call. I think if the guy has been wrongly searched and detained he should be compensated for this. A police search completely turns your house upside down, and the psychological impact is easily underestimated if you have not experienced anything like it yourself. Imagine if a gang of police turned up at your door one day, demanded entry to your home and started upending everything in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's a sad fact that many in uniform are hardly the sharpest tools in the drawer which can lead to some amusing scenes. Trouble is, if you are at the receiving end, it aint so funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It says in your link that the Telegraph are reporting that they got the wrong address. In which case it's nothing to do with anti terrorism laws, more of an admin error. I bet it happens all the time. Yes. For example, I think you'll find I was poster of the year 2002, Because I only got to rule until March before the forum shut. You were 2000 & 2001 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Avatar's don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Nor does the Wayback Machine. http://web.archive.org/web/20031204033420/http://www.manx.net/forums/members.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tameelf Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 PTSD still effects me at times 20 years on from the day 20 plod raided me on suspiction alone 72 hours locked up no wash or exercise in that time the head games i endured in lock up finger pointing when i got out .all takes its toll .outcome no charges . police constables swear a oath to protect and uphold the peace.they are also a PLC we have every right to sue any PLC that fcuks up so why not the police who after all are in it for profit police in usa kill people by raiding wrong adresses this is incresing all the time thank fcuk ours arnt armed.... oh i forgot about the allan st seige 2 fire engines ambulances school evacuated armed cops all because of a stupid corpy responce to a leaking tap and police refuseing to go into a pecription medicine halucinating ladys house because she was convinced al queada were in the backbed room rarther than calling armed responce i knowing no one was in went in and gave the all clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Got away with it did you? Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE4L9eR3QWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Nor does the Wayback Machine. http://web.archive.org/web/20031204033420/http://www.manx.net/forums/members.asp Ace. So many user names, so few members. And an army of TheTrolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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