woolley Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 We often hear of an intense search for and persecution of people linked to a certain thing being described as a witch-hunt or an inquisition, but I think most people do not realise how close to the mark this comparison is. A serious comparison would actually be worth reading. Anyway, I am hoping that the public's current zeal for publicly burning "sex offenders" at the figurative stake has run its course. It began with a seriously repulsive and dangerous character of Jimmy Saville, but now, having run out of prime targets it has come to chucking anyone looking vaguely suspicious on the pyre - 'touchy-feely' garrulous men from the 70s, and weirdo thespians with a prediction for young ladies. Mr. Travis may be a total creep, he may be a lecherous old git who needs to learn to respect personal space - he was a serial bum patter and creepo back rubber - but should these things be the purview of the law? What we have seen in this trial is the ruination (imagine for a minute being put through this yourself) of a man who has done little wrong. Has it been fair, in proportion to the now disproven offences? Has it fuck. The ability to bring such petty misdemeanors to court is still a weapon in the hands of those the spiteful, deluded, or disproportionately aggrieved. Yes of course, but then your daughter comes home from work in tears to find her career progression is blocked not just by the glass ceiling but by the fact she won't 'play ball' with the latest touchy feely aged lothario. TBT OK. But not if she waits till she's 65 to tell anyone about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 When a lot of these incidents occurred public perceptions and the law were different to what they are today. It's a bit like putting Alf Garnett on trial for racism committed in 1968. Agreed. Different standards applied at the time when the alleged incidents occurred. I was merely responding to TBT's rather naff analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Would it be of any advantage to ask our female contingent as to how prevalent this form of behaviour is/was? And are the reporting procedures robust e.g secretary vs CEO. TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 TBT - What you need to do is identify the different generations of the women on here as well as their experiences and how they felt about it at the time. So it all becomes very complex. There were probably some who hated it, some who put up with it, some who played up to it. As far as the current day is concerned it is difficult to establish because some of these claims are settled out of court with compromise agreements so the Employment Tribunal figures can be misleading. In my work experience (about 12 years) I can think of only a couple of occasions where I have dealt with complaints. They were more as a result of suggestive comments than any actual physical act though. As we have said the boundaries of what is and is not acceptable have moved over the years and Employment Law has introduced more rights and the internet has made it easier to find what those rights are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yin & Yang Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Would it be of any advantage to ask our female contingent as to how prevalent this form of behaviour is/was? And are the reporting procedures robust e.g secretary vs CEO. TBT. Having been working in a male dominated area for the past 20 years, I can honestly say that I have ever only once had what I would call an uncomfortable experience at work! I didn't say anything at the time as I was more worried about loosing the company a contract than my own uncomfortable experience. When I did bring the subject up, my boss went ballistic and refused to take on any more work for that company, and sent a letter of complaint! I was also subtly chastised for not speaking out earlier! Having had this confidence at work knowing what's acceptable, I've honestly never had this problem since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Jimmy Savile is under gravel Michael Le Vell? Who can tell? Freddie Star can't go far Rolf Harris can't go to Paris Piers has done a runner, in his Morgan car. Woody is quite happy. He escaped it all His daughter is delighted, Because she inherits all. Roman says whatever! it was 40 years ago. Meanwhile up in Foxdale, Only auntie knows the score. Hey.....Sausages started it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 No he didn't. It was Jimmy Savile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 This is one of those taboo subjects that is impossible to discuss properly, rationally and openly. There's such a cloud of gender politics, cultural relativism and our old friend political correctness obscuring the issue, that makes it very difficult to address the real problem and the real cases of rape and abuse that we all abhor. In the wake of Saville we've seen a national moral panic and yet another witch-hunt that has obscured the issue even further. I grew up in the sixties and seventies and most of the men who I knew, and were luckier than me (!) merely took advantage of the opportunities presented to them in open exchange; women were not simply the object or passive victims of male attention. Each generation re-writes history to reflect its own values, ideology and assumptions and this is what is blinding far too many people. I'll get my tin hat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That is so true SMUJ, that was an age of new female sexual liberation where women could exploit their sexuality without fear of pregnancy and before AIDS and nabbing a star was the challenge. That is not to say there weren't unpleasant predatory men around who forced matters beyond the point of willingness of the female; but it was the age of free love and a general acceptance of sexual recreation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Would it be of any advantage to ask our female contingent as to how prevalent this form of behaviour is/was? And are the reporting procedures robust e.g secretary vs CEO. TBT. Having been working in a male dominated area for the past 20 years, I can honestly say that I have ever only once had what I would call an uncomfortable experience at work! I didn't say anything at the time as I was more worried about loosing the company a contract than my own uncomfortable experience. When I did bring the subject up, my boss went ballistic and refused to take on any more work for that company, and sent a letter of complaint! I was also subtly chastised for not speaking out earlier! Having had this confidence at work knowing what's acceptable, I've honestly never had this problem since! Y&Y my thanks for your reply. But your comment of "I didn't say anything at the time..." is a real concern. And one possibly shared by those making allegations years (or decades) later. Nevertheless it exposed Stuart Hall O.B.E. and brought him to justice. Mrs TBT has experience in Human Resources and her comments make for uncomfortable reading. In fact, during her secretarial and HR training (RSA and IPD), there was a whole section of the syllabus dedicated to the refusal of unwelcome 'advances'. The sexual predators of this world are well skilled in knowing how to abuse the system as well as the individual. TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Are any of these sexual predators female TBT, or are they just the male of the species ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Are any of these sexual predators female TBT, or are they just the male of the species ? I know of one of the female persuasion who's just binned her husband. But libel laws being what they are... And this celebrated case from a while back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_sex_in_chains_case TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 How many men do you know who would complain about sexual harassment? If it was some sweet cutie you'd lap it up and if it was some old boiler you'd tell her to naff off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 How many men do you know who would complain about sexual harassment? If it was some sweet cutie you'd lap it up and if it was some old boiler you'd tell her to naff off. May be , with the "old boiler" it would be more polite to indicate that you are flattered but decline ,saying that you were "in love with another" thus letting her down gently and perhaps deterring her from making false allegations that you harassed her ( hell hath no fury…………….) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 TBT having also completed a professional qualification from the (now) CIPD I can tell you that there is not a whole section about refusing sexual advances. There is normally a lot of examples of discrimination and harassment which are 'negative' but these are cases that have been before tribunal's. You don't learn from the workplaces where discrimination and harassment doesn't occur. I have worked in HR for many years and as I said I can only think of two minor cases of sexual harassment which were stupid comments by the males involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.