Cronky Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 From this week's UK Budget speech: http://https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/293759/37630_Budget_2014_Web_Accessible.pdf 1.208 The government will modernise and strengthen HMRC’s debt collection powers to recover financial assets from the bank accounts of debtors who owe over £1,000 of tax or tax credit debts, have the financial means to pay, and have been contacted multiple times by HMRC to pay. A minimum of £5,000 will be left across debtors’ accounts. This brings the UK in line with many other tax authorities which already have the power to recover debts directly from an individual’s account, such as France and the US. No requirement for a court order – and no appeal. This is the stuff of the police state. No more ‘innocent until proven guilty’. Just, ‘we find you guilty and here’s the punishment’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 What would your solution be to recover unpaid tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 We have a facade of liberty anyway, we try to kid ourselves but like the USA, things have been carefully engineered to allow us to think we are free. Tax, although unpopular, is the only way that governments can get the revenue to run the country. If there are people who are avoiding paying their fair share, why should everyone else suffer because of them? Good idea, just crack on and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 What would your solution be to recover unpaid tax? I wouldn't take them to court, then keep schtum when their advocate doesn't turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 What would your solution be to recover unpaid tax? I think UK Gov. should respect the Human Rights Act which says: Article 7 No punishment without law 1. No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed. 2. This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations. I think that people who do not pay their tax should be taken to court by HMRC. The court should then decide whether or not the person is guilty. That way, if HMRC were wrong in their claim then people would end up paying tax that they might not owe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 What would your solution be to recover unpaid tax? "Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you, did she die in vain?" TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurricanII Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 What would your solution be to recover unpaid tax? I wouldn't take them to court, then keep schtum when their advocate doesn't turn up. I agree.. I wouldn't let people run up the best part of quarter of a million in liabilities in the fist place and keep shoddy accounts. Should be shut down well in advance of that level of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manx-person Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 From this week's UK Budget speech: http://https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/293759/37630_Budget_2014_Web_Accessible.pdf 1.208 The government will modernise and strengthen HMRC’s debt collection powers to recover financial assets from the bank accounts of debtors who owe over £1,000 of tax or tax credit debts, have the financial means to pay, and have been contacted multiple times by HMRC to pay. A minimum of £5,000 will be left across debtors’ accounts. This brings the UK in line with many other tax authorities which already have the power to recover debts directly from an individual’s account, such as France and the US. No requirement for a court order – and no appeal. This is the stuff of the police state. No more ‘innocent until proven guilty’. Just, ‘we find you guilty and here’s the punishment’. It's the same in the Isle of Man (has been for years), for a IOM Treasury tax liability in order for a Coroner to arrest a bank account there is no need for a court order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 if you owe the money to them how is it nicking? its just debt collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Manx-person is quite right. The coroner/warrant system was introduced in 1986 to try and remedy the problem of unpaid tax debts choking the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Surely this is just more reason for places like Switzerland or even the Island to exist....offshore accounts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 if you owe the money to them how is it nicking? its just debt collecting. Do we owe the money? Or is it rather that it is being taken from us whether we like it or not? If someone comes up to me in the street and takes £20 out of my wallet, and says "you owe me this". I would ask, "what for?". He answers, "I'm going to spend it for you"... "I want to spend it myself. I worked for it" ... "tough". If you don't give him it he kicks you in the balls and chains you to a lamppost. This is basically the essence of the transaction between me and the government. At no time did I ever agree to pay them any money. It is taken from me whether I like it or not under threat of violence. 'Owe' is the wrong word here. That the money is 'charged' probably comes closer to the true sense of what is going on, without resorting to anything as alarmingly accurate as 'robbed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think that people who do not pay their tax should be taken to court by HMRC. The court should then decide whether or not the person is guilty. That way, if HMRC were wrong in their claim then people would end up paying tax that they might not owe.I agree, but if they refuse to engage with you "multiple times", is a costly trial (funded by taxpayers) really a better solution? I mean, tax is pretty binary, you either owe it or you don't. If I was presented with a bill I didn't think I had to pay, I'd be engaging with them pretty damn quickly personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norville Rogers Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yet again we see the state able to interfere with and seize a citizens wealth. The simple fact that the fruits of your labour deposited in a bank no longer belongs to you once the bank gets its grubby non interest paying hands on it and is merely an IOU from the bank to you ( enough for a thread on its own) is not enough to stop the long thieving arm of the state demanding its tribute and seizing what it believes you owe. It's not enough that you work 3 or more months every year exclusively for them they want more. Backed up with state sanctioned threats, violence and incarceration for non compliance. Presumably now we will also see the return of debtors prisons. How dare the farmed, placid and grazing citizens of a state object or frustrate the seizing of tribute for their masters. In addition to them able to Cyprus you they can simply take it all, leave you £5k and give you the headache to worry about challenging them to try get it back. Good luck to that. The grubby masters of usury and fractional reserve will just allow the funds to be seized by the state as a matter of course and without resistance. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they charged for the service. Best remove excess funds from banks, you can't trust them and become your own central bank with no third party risk. Let them try seize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 You cannot defend a claim for tax in court. You haven't been able todo that in many many years in either UK or IOM. You have the right to appeal an income tax assessment through a tribunal system and then, on a point of law, on to the courts. These cases are ones where there has been an assessment, default or otherwise, and non payment and where there has been no appeal. Then there have been numerous attempts to collect. In the IOM the tax man issues a warrant which is enforceable by the coroner and he can arrest and uplift money from your bank account without a specific court order, if he knows where it is, and assuming you are in funds. I don't think that it's a bad reflection on the banks or state, surely it's a poor reflection on those who owe tax, know they owe tax, have had the opportunity to appeal, haven't exercised it and haven't paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.