Croatian Constitutional Court decides all kids have to be vaccinated. Children's right to health is above parent's right to make wrong decisions.

[HeliX]

Source is Croatian, but Google Translate does an ok job.

 

http://www.vecernji.hr/moje-zdravlje/roditelji-nemaju-pravo-odbiti-cijepiti-svoje-dijete-929063

 

 

 

Never thought of Croatia being ahead of the UK in medical legislation. Apparently they are.

[Vulgarian]

I recall the issue of mandatory vaccination being done to death several times in my time here. Still, it's worth talking about. My view is that it should probably done - but with extreme caution and consideration. There is vast potential for abuse of a system where the state can forcibly medicate its citizens. Conspiracy theories about brainwashing and aside, the more realistic situation is that vaccines which are not necessary and do carry risks (as they all do) are forced on the populace because companies and governments stand to make a lot of money out of them. Large pharmaceutical companies can exercise their influence in government (where this is allowed) to persuade them that a vaccine is necessary. A dose for every child that is born, indefinitely, equals huge profit for somebody. It also means jobs, tax revenue, etc.

 

Because it's not a clear cut thing where you can say 'this vaccine is necessary, and there are no risks', because it seems as though there are small risks involved, and the necessity of vaccines is sometimes questionable.

 

No need to mention the fact that once establish, probably by a well-meaning government, a system of mandatory medication can be abused in other ways the case of ideology or regime change.

[HeliX]

I don't think the monetary side is a real risk. The percentage of anti-vaxers isn't that high, so it's not going to make much of a difference in terms of money. However due to herd immunity it makes a big difference in terms of prevention of illness.

[Thomas Jefferson]

I think Nazi Germany beat them to it.

[mojomonkey]

I think Nazi Germany beat them to it.

 

I know they did the whole human testing thing in their camps but did they actually have a program of national vaccination for anything?

[Thomas Jefferson]

 

I think Nazi Germany beat them to it.

 

I know they did the whole human testing thing in their camps but did they actually have a program of national vaccination for anything?

 

They certainly had a national programme of forcibly injecting kids without their parents' consent.

[mojomonkey]

 

They certainly had a national programme of forcibly injecting kids without their parents' consent.

 

Do you know what were they vaccinating against?

[HeliX]

I think Nazi Germany beat them to it.

 

Are you even trying anymore?

[Lonan3]

 

I think Nazi Germany beat them to it.

 

Are you even trying anymore?

Yes, he is - extremely.

[Bobbie Bobster]

@Vulgarian My initial reaction was that it sounded like a great idea in order to boost the efficacy of the vaccine, but your post raised some very valid counterarguments. I would agree with you (I think) that any government should think long and hard about mandatory vaccination and would need an elaborate system of checks in place in order to guard against profiteering and other nefarious ends. Even then, the scope for abuse is huge.

[Lxxx]

The science behind vaccinations does not prove conclusively that the benefits of something this huge would outweigh the risks, therefore to make something mandatory is a step too far.

 

If they wanted to make something mandatory then why not a Vitamin D supplement in every school at lunch-time, seeing as rickets is making a comeback now. Or mandatory bans on aspartame and other toxic chemicals in the food supply which cause all number of side effects. Let's not be injecting harmful foreign bodies directly into the bloodstream of young children (bypassing the vital, developing immune system) and focus on the health of the populace first and the profits of multinational corporations second.

[Chinahand]

I don't think vaccination should be mandatory.

 

The problem is communication of risk - it is irrational and factually incorrect, provided you aren't immuno-supressed, hyper-allergic etc, to view the risk of an approved vaccine as being greater than the risk of the disease itself.

 

Now people can be unclear of their allergic-status, have undiagnosed medical conditions etc and these people make up those having side effects from vaccinations.

 

I can link you to the public health surveys which try to classify what the risk is of having a particular vaccine. These are large scale efforts and for all the methodological flaws they can give bounds for the harms they can cause.

 

The harms, obviously aren't zero, but they are order of magnitudes lower than the disease itself.

 

And when people start talking about the dangers of aspartame and other toxic chemicals - well Lxxx can you quantify that please - and include a comparison with say peanuts and coffee.

 

Cherry picking risk is easy. Yes, been given a vaccine exposes you to risk. My goodness why would you want to risk a sore arm, blood poisoning, a risk of fever and yes, seizure, brain hemmorage and death. Why, because there is a higher probability of similar and worse symptoms from the disease it is trying to cure.

 

Coordinated health information can see risks at incredibly low levels - one in tens of millions. At that level people basically have no intuitive understanding and hence we have scares about vaccines thousands of times safer than exposure to the disease they protect against; and internet fads about aspartame, fluoride and decaffeinated coffee.

 

Such scares are a huge problem for policy makers, because motivated raw emotion campaigners are going to beat a risk assessment report.

 

That creates very real dilemmas in how to coordinate health policies etc.

 

I'm not in favour of mandatory vaccination - but we definitely need improved understanding of risk. What Lxxx feeds on and into isn't evidence based, doesn't compare risks. Its emotional and the gut feel. Something basically useless for risks at this level.

[Truth Seeker]

The Amish don't vaccinate themselves, so why aren't they dropping like dropping like flies from various illnesses, or having major outbreaks of contagious diseases?

[Chinahand]

Google Infectious Diseases Amish

You'll discover that Amish communities suffer disproportionately from infectious diseases such as measles and polio, that as a result there have been efforts to increase vaccination awareness in this community and as a result a certain proportion do vaccinate providing some herd immunity.

So Truth Seeker, it would seem that the evidence shows that you aren't particularly right in what you've said ;-).

[mojomonkey]

The Amish don't vaccinate themselves, so why aren't they dropping like dropping like flies from various illnesses, or having major outbreaks of contagious diseases?

 

Do you have any evidence for that? From what I can find the Amish have no explicit religious prohibitions types of medicine. They do suffer more occurences of some disease due to a certain level of inbreeding though. Really interesting people though, I spend some time looking at and visiting Mennonites (very similar to Amish) a few years ago.

 

Back on topic, I don't personally believe forced vaccination is right.