Cambon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Some interesting comments. I agree with Shake me up Judy. Cleggy is out of his depth. In fact, so are Cameron and Milliband if they were put up against Farage. I personally don't agree that the uk is better off in Europe. In the '70s and most of the '80s yes. In fact, up until around the birth of the Euro. However, since then I think Europe is slowly self destructing. It may take a couple more decades, but it will self destruct, and from that point of view, the countries who get out the earliest will be best off and recover more quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Cameron... From BBC news, 'PM David Cameron has criticised both his deputy, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, and UKIP leader Nigel Farage, after their televised EU debate. ''The problem with this debate is that both of the people taking part actually have quite extreme views'', the PM said. Mr Clegg said he was on a ''marathon'' mission to reverse ''20 years of myth-making'' about the EU. Mr Farage had accused him of ''wilfully lying'' about how much power the UK had handed to the EU institutions. The Headmaster hates any fighting in the playground.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Farage was totally out of his depth, lied constantly and his bad mouthing of modern Britain is positively unpatriotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 But Millennials are not engaged with politics and tend not to vote - therefore the elderly, who are a larger voting block and who actually use that vote are far more able to get influence politicians. This was partly covered in a program on Radio 4 last night, which basically stated that as old people tended to vote policies tended to be in their favour rather than the young who did not vote in such numbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03zd3jc This is the blurb "In a new series of thought-provoking debates, Claire Bolderson looks at something another country does well, or differently, and asks whether it could work here. The last few decades have seen declining participation in the electoral process, particularly among the younger generation. Only 44% of 18-24 year-olds voted in 2010 compared with 76% of over 65s, and the Hansard Society is predicting it could be as low as 12% in the next election. Could adopting an Estonian style e-democracy re-engage the population? Estonia is credited with being the world's leading e-democracy, having embraced a determined policy of digitalisation, including electronic internet voting, as part of the push to make itself competitive in the 21st Century. The UK political system is positively antiquarian by comparison. What can the UK learn from the Estonian experience? The Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, recently suggested the UK might follow suit, but what would be the advantages and disadvantages - and how much would it cost? Is our current system fit for purpose, or is it out of touch with the way we live now, already doing our shopping, banking, betting and much else online? Would digitalisation re-engage the young, or merely serve the established political elite? The Estonian system relies on an ID card system. Would that be a barrier to our adoption of something similar? Could technology liberate us from a 19th Century political rut, or would we lay ourselves open to 21st Century problems of technology - fraud, insecurity and governmental control" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Farage has an easy message to sell. Which is basically that if the UK leaves Europe it can have all of the good things about being in Euope/EU but none of what many would view as the neagtives. That is what we want with regard to anything that we are part of, all the upsides and none of the down sides. I could have a much more fun time if I could have all of the great things about being married without any of the negatives. But I can not. Having signed on the dotted line i have to take the good with the bad. I cannot say to the wife I know we are married but I am going to carry on going out with the lads and drinking as much as before, I'll carry on going on the pull and on the very odd occasion I do not get totally rebuffed I'll go back to their place or use the spare bedroom. Farage is effectively trying to sell that you can have that and it is a persuasive message, problem is it is great trying to sell that message and get people to sign up to it. It is rather more difficult if you have to actually provide at some future point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 LL The problem with the European Posh Boys Club, is that the centralised government who make the decisions are not elected. The MEPs are elected, but the people who run the show are appointed. A lot like LEGCO. These people then impose numerous laws on member states that the member states are forced to accept, regardless of whether it will benefit the member state or not. The member states are also forced to contribute to all kinds of pots, a bit like the reserve funds over here. However, unless a country is on its arse, the chances of receiving much back is virtually nil. Farage is pulling on the heart strings of the nation, and it is working. The points he is bringing up about borders etc. are really minor points about what is bad about the European model. It will fall apart as all unions do (USSR, CZ, even the UK is the Scots go). It is inevitable. UK is best off out of it before it ends in war, possibly with Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Farage was totally out of his depth, lied constantly and his bad mouthing of modern Britain is positively unpatriotic. Have you been watching a lot of Fox News lately? They tend to call anyone they disagree with "unpatriotic" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Farage is effectively trying to sell that you can have that and it is a persuasive message, problem is it is great trying to sell that message and get people to sign up to it. It is rather more difficult if you have to actually provide at some future point.IMO UKIP are doing something even simpler than that: They are campaigning and generally going-on about what they don't like. They never find any positives. And that's terribly simplistic and also rather easy to do; sarcastically ranting on about what you hate. It can also make it easy for you to seem quite funny and clever though mostly only to people who are not very funny or bright (and hello to everyone who still thinks that Bill Hicks was some sort of comedy genius). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I love Bill Hicks. Have you heard the conspiracy theory that Alex Jones is Bill Hicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Nigel Farage has a connection with the IOM. According to today's paper- Last year Farage was branded a 'hypocrite' after admitting he opened an offshore trust fund to slash his tax bill while campaigning against tax avoidance. He set up a scheme on the Isle of Man for '"inheritance purposes" but later claimed he never used it, adding: "It was a mistake. I'm not rich enough." The BBC has faced criticism for allowing star presenters to have their wages paid into such companies, which means they end up paying less tax. Ukip did not respond to telephone calls asking for a response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Farage was totally out of his depth, lied constantly and his bad mouthing of modern Britain is positively unpatriotic. Have you been watching a lot of Fox News lately? They tend to call anyone they disagree with "unpatriotic" as well. No but I bet you and Nigel have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Farage is effectively trying to sell that you can have that and it is a persuasive message, problem is it is great trying to sell that message and get people to sign up to it. It is rather more difficult if you have to actually provide at some future point.IMO UKIP are doing something even simpler than that: They are campaigning and generally going-on about what they don't like. They never find any positives. And that's terribly simplistic and also rather easy to do; sarcastically ranting on about what you hate. It can also make it easy for you to seem quite funny and clever though mostly only to people who are not very funny or bright (and hello to everyone who still thinks that Bill Hicks was some sort of comedy genius). isn't that most people on forums? never opening up a positive opinion or anything for someone else to comment on just sniping down everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 But Declan, unpatriotic to whom? Britain or Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Back to a better time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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