Blair - West and East should unite against radical Islam

[Domino]

Wooley said:

I don't reckon radical Islam needs a lot of inciting.

If you are convinced you are going to paradise for 74 prime virgins if you blow yourself and your bollocks to kingdom come how is reason going to stop you?

 

I considered giving the radicalism thing a go because of the virgins promise. But I read the small print and there was no guarantee that the virgins didn’t have bollocks also!

[woolley]

Wooley said:

I don't reckon radical Islam needs a lot of inciting.

If you are convinced you are going to paradise for 74 prime virgins if you blow yourself and your bollocks to kingdom come how is reason going to stop you?

 

I considered giving the radicalism thing a go because of the virgins promise. But I read the small print and there was no guarantee that the virgins didn’t have bollocks also!

Or even that the very idea is bollocks to begin with.

[quilp]

 

[Shake me up Judy]

This is what Tony cuts a rug to in his hotel room before he goes in to bat for the West:

 

http://youtu.be/bkHn7WFrzCU

 

(It turns Cherie on apparently....)

[Thomas Jefferson]

East, West and Islam should wake up and unite against the New World Order.

 

Radical Islam is not the natural culmination of Islamic civilisation; it is an aberration and regression which is basically a product of western imperialism. I mean literally -- it's not just a reactionary movement; it has been deliberately cultivated, nurtured and perpetuated by the western powers since the early 19th century. Since that time they've been working with what was once an obscure minority of radicals to suppress any and all reformist, progressive, moderate or democratic movements and governments in the middle east and the Islamic world. I'm not about to start listening to Tony Blair; the man has no credibility when it comes to discussing radical Islam.

[Chinahand]

And you have no credibility when it comes to claiming it is deliberately cultivated, nurtured and perpetrated by the western powers.

 

The grain of truth in that statement is totally dominated by far more complex and organic factors within the middle east and beyond.

[Thomas Jefferson]

What I said is 100% truth. I urge everyone to do their own research and find out for themselves. Islam has been co-opted by the New World Order, just as Christianity and most of the secular western political groups have been. If you want to know who is really a threat to the world, it's the international bankers and transnational corporations. Look at nearly any war, feud, clash, rivalry or schism on this planet and you'll see both sides are unwitting pawns being played against each other. The so-called "clash of civilisations" is a case in point.

[pongo]

I also think it is slightly ironic, that a high Catholic like Blair is flag waving against Islam

 

I sort of hate myself for this minor quibble. But IMO there is no such thing as a 'High Catholic'. A 'High Church Anglican' / 'High Anglican' is almost a Catholic (e.g. love of evensong and Victorian gothic architecture, burning incense, singing the prayers like a monk - propensity for Latin etc). And 'High Church' tends to be more of a style (the environment in which a person feels comfortable with their religion), rather than a specific set of beliefs. And there are many quite 'high church' people who have much in common both with Jesuits and with atheists.

 

Mr Blair's position has always been somewhat hard to fathom. In many ways he seems much closer to the happy clappy evangelicals and the Alpha people. His friend David Frost fronted Alpha for a while.

 

Mr Blair's wife is from a more traditionally leftish and grassroots Catholic background IIRC. Ultimately the confusion he represents may relate to a time when he represented all things to all people.

[pongo]

Dunno why I posted that. I guess I'm steeped in it.

[Chinahand]

What I said is 100% truth. I urge everyone to do their own research and find out for themselves.

So come on, TJ, give some evidence that the bankers or New World Orderers or whoever have "suppress[ed] any and all reformist, progressive, moderate or democratic movements and governments in ..." well how about in Turkey or Malaysia?

 

Both ruled by governments which fit, though far from perfectly, at least partially the idea of "reformist, progressive, moderate or democratic" Islam.

 

These non radical Islamic countries have been supported, allied, and joined in trade with the West. They've seen huge increases in wealth as this has happened and their brand of Islam is an acknowledged rival to the Wahhabist Zealotry of the Saudis, Talabs and Brothers.

 

Reality is far far more complicated than your certainties that the West have forced Islamic fundamentalism on the Middle East.

 

I agree they've not helped, but the history of both moderate and radical Islam is not a one dimensional fantasy of Western Conspiracy - no matter how much you go on about Bankers.

[quilp]

Dunno why I posted that. I guess I'm steeped in it.

 

 

It was ok, I thought. Was it not Alistair Campbell who at once stated, ''....we don't do God!'', of the Labour government?

 

@TJ. The incidence of islamic expansionism and its supremacist nature is well documented, by believable, contemporary historians, long before this ''nuturing'' you speak of. Remember the gates of Vienna and the TRUE reasons for the Crusades! I would agree that it's in the interest's of the West to play the schisms and division in the Middle East; doing so expands its influence and is good for business. If they're encouraged to fight each other, they won't be attacking you.

 

What better way than to de-stabilise an influential and powerful player (Saddam) in the area and start the ball-rolling? Anarchy and chaos ensue and eventually spreads throughout the region. All carried-out under the guise of liberation and the need to relieve the Iraqi people of dictatorship. Oh, and those mysterious weapons of mass-destruction and that non-sensical '45 minute warning'. Arm's sales are through the roof, oil and gas too. The Middle East is more dangerous a place now, than it ever was but not because of some New World Order. There's much more to it than you claim.

 

What would Blair suggest the east/west do? He doesn't seem to infer how he would play it were he in charge. That'd be interesting to know.

[Chinahand]

@ Pongo - I presume you know that Blair has converted to Catholicism. It looks like he was in the closet for many years - believing it would damage him politically - but as soon he was out of office he was baptized - and I think Knighted by the Pope, but maybe not - The Mirror is about the only reputable source I found and that only says may be! I admit calling him a high Catholic was a bit over the top - but Tony Blair, Papal Knight, if that isn't high Pomp I don't know what is!

[Thomas Jefferson]

@TJ. The incidence of islamic expansionism and its supremacist nature is well documented, by believable, contemporary historians, long before this ''nuturing'' you speak of. Remember the gates of Vienna and the TRUE reasons for the Crusades! I would agree that it's in the interest's of the West to play the schisms and division in the Middle East; doing so expands its influence and is good for business. If they're encouraged to fight each other, they won't be attacking you.

 

What you refer to was Ottoman imperialism and was no different to western imperialism.

[pongo]

@ Pongo - I presume you know that Blair has converted to Catholicism. It looks like he was in the closet for many years - believing it would damage him politically - but as soon he was out of office he was baptized - and I think Knighted by the Pope, but maybe not - The Mirror is about the only reputable source I found and that only says may be! I admit calling him a high Catholic was a bit over the top - but Tony Blair, Papal Knight, if that isn't high Pomp I don't know what is!

Sorry. It was my pedantic alter ego posting.

[maynragh]

What I said is 100% truth. I urge everyone to do their own research and find out for themselves. Islam has been co-opted by the New World Order, just as Christianity and most of the secular western political groups have been. If you want to know who is really a threat to the world, it's the international bankers and transnational corporations. Look at nearly any war, feud, clash, rivalry or schism on this planet and you'll see both sides are unwitting pawns being played against each other. The so-called "clash of civilisations" is a case in point.

 

How does the global financial turbulance of recent years fit in to this scenario? I assume you would be of the opinion that it is simply part of the programme, as the clever gamblers can make money whether the economies are booming or crashing. Clearly there is a correlation between grinding poverty / inequality (histories of imperialism) and radicalisation, but can the current systemic gambling driven by pure greed, be considered an orchestration if it is unpredictable? Or is Western austerity (showing China an open door) also part of the plan?