Thomas Jefferson Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Claims untouchable No, things are not quite as bad as they are in India with their tens of millions of untouchtables who do all the hard work; and who inherit that caste position and are told they deserve to be in that caste due to karmic justice [e.g. they were a bad person or even animal in a past life] and so any attempt to leave that caste is deemed a sin and is totally barred from happening by the higher castes who depend on the untouchables as a cheap or even free slave labour supply. However, there are quite alarming similarities in the ideological justifications of Hindu caste discrimination and onesided neoliberal class warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 The caste system means no social mobility whatsoever. At least the West maintains the illusion of social mobility, even though for most, it is just that: little more than an illusion and a maintained fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Does anyone seriously think this guy is going to deliver an in out referendum in 2017? Given that both parties are just the same one clique of people, it wouldn't surprise me if they've set-up in advance to have Labour win the next general election. After all, it doesn't matter which party is at the helm, as they both take orders from the same global interests. Anyone who thinks UKIP will cause the Conservatives to lose votes has it backwards; it is the Conservatives establishment themselves who are causing the party to lose votes to UKIP by refusing to take seriously the concerns of ordinary Conservative voters and Conservative backbenchers in the House of Commons. But then again, as long as these major parties get in, it doesn't really matter which one, or if they'll have to be out of government for a term, as the real One Party program will continue full steam ahead no matter which of these two or three or four front groups is currently posing as the government of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 We don't have a class, we have a feudal caste system.Bollocks. There are people on one side of my family who went from tenements to top public schools and the City in one generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Bollocks. There are people on one side of my family who went from tenements to top public schools and the City in one generation. A pity you didn't go to a top public school to learn basic logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 The key to the UKIP's relative success depends upon them never actually winning. They would be sunk if they actually won and had to show their mettle in the daily and typically rather boring business of administration. Just like the FN, their contrarian rhetoric appeals to simplistic sentiment even amongst people who are not basically necessarily nasty. A party which is actually elected to govern a country has to make difficult real decisions and obviously risks unpopularity. Because govt is not obvious or easy. It is much easier to be in professional opposition. Look how unpopular the Liberals are now that they have finally had a taste of power again after almost a century. I wish that the Tories and Labour would not bend to the UKIP. It would be much better to invite them into govt in coalition on their own terms. That would be the much brighter strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 The whole point of voting for UKIP is because the other parties are ignoring the wishes of a large portion of the British electorate who are not happy about the EU. If UKIP simply joined with the Conservatives or Labour on the major party's terms, in a way that UKIP's EU policies were not realised, then UKIP would simply lose support in the following elections and another eurosceptic party representing disenfranchised voters would replace them. What would be a much brighter strategy is if the Conservative leadership would bring disenfranchised voters back into the fold by truly representing them so that there wouldn't even be a need for UKIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 They may win few, if any seats at Westminister but the main effect will be as now, UKIP 'stealing' votes. This has got to be a worry to the other parties, especially the Tories, coupled with the recent Labour gains. I think you're right that they won't win seats at Westminster - not having PR puts paid to that - but I think you're wrong thinking the Tories should be especially worried. When the general election comes, I suspect many UKIP voters will drift to the Tories, as they've apparently promised an EU referendum, and of the main parties, the Tories are probably the closest to UKIP's ethos. For me it's Labour that need to worry - at this stage they should be well ahead of the Tories to win a general election as there's always a drift back to the government in power at the end - even in the UK they don't like change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 @TJ For the Conservatives, the EU debate has a lot in common with the disputes over free trade which went on for over a century and repeatedly split the party. Just as with free trade it is also quite clear where the road is inevitably leading. And the EU is part of the one world agenda. Whether we like it or not. The rise of the contrarian parties across Europe probably makes things easier for the Conservatives and Labour ultimately - since it should also force politicians across Europe to find consensus with respect to looking at how they can react to make the EU get better headlines. ETA: the intellectual heart of the Conservative Party knows that they would break up if there was ever a decision to leave Europe. They will work to win on a reform agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 They may win few, if any seats at Westminister but the main effect will be as now, UKIP 'stealing' votes. This has got to be a worry to the other parties, especially the Tories, coupled with the recent Labour gains. I think you're right that they won't win seats at Westminster - not having PR puts paid to that - but I think you're wrong thinking the Tories should be especially worried. When the general election comes, I suspect many UKIP voters will drift to the Tories, as they've apparently promised an EU referendum, and of the main parties, the Tories are probably the closest to UKIP's ethos. For me it's Labour that need to worry - at this stage they should be well ahead of the Tories to win a general election as there's always a drift back to the government in power at the end - even in the UK they don't like change. In this instance, I'm not bothered which party is 'threatened' by UKIP's showing. The main thing is, they've all had their complacent faces rubbed in it and both election outcome's have shown that the 'Establishment' not only had their eye off the ball but were looking completely the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 No, the establishment were looking the right way.... towards their real bosses, who are in Brussels. What has happened in the UK and France is that the public have told them that their dream of a United States of Europe is neither wanted nor needed. So the fascists in the European Commission now need to revert to Plan B and I'm sure we'll soon find out what it entails as they can't try the same tricks they pulled in Italy and Greece again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Be interesting to see what 'Plan B' entails The open market is very successful, tho' many (mostly older) folks are concerned about cultural change brought about by freedom of movement for workers The USE thing is for generations far in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I believe in democracy. If people vote for someone to do something, then the people should get what they were promised. But as P.K. says, UKIP getting 10% of the vote does not exactly give them carte blanche to go changing everything overnight. They need to win a general election to do that. It's just unfortunate that the main parties will go changing their policies because that 10% of the electorate is enough to make a big difference between them getting in or not next time. Ah well. Looks like I won't be making any plans soon to return to the UK with my foreign wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 We don't have a class, we have a feudal caste system.Bollocks. There are people on one side of my family who went from tenements to top public schools and the City in one generation. Yup Pongo. John Prescot managed to get from the bottom to the top. Plenty more examples too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.