Gladys Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Glad you corrected yourself there, Barrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 One innocent person put to death completely negates any "value" I can see in the death penalty (which wasn't much to start with). I honestly can't see how anyone could argue otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. There's something wrong with you. "What you did was completely horrific and disgusting so let's do the same thing to you". How does that make us any better than the criminals? If a society wants to succeed it has to behave in a civilized way, even towards people who are not civilized themselves. Eye for an eye is a completely moronic way to behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm perfectly comfortable with the state exacting a "revenge killing" on someone who raped and murdered an 11 month old child. Sorry you don't agree, but I don't think sitting them down on pink beanbags and trying to get in touch with their feelings to understand them is really fair and just. And in those countries that don't have the death penalty this kind of stuff still goes on so I dont think talking to them is really deterring them either. So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. This. Spot on. And to paraphrase Chinahand, there are some people who really are only fit to be shot in the head. No qualms at all. In fact in many cases that is fat too good for them. Then we have the old chestnut of executing the wrong person. OK, apply discretion where there is any doubt but there are plenty of cases where we are 100% sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm perfectly comfortable with the state exacting a "revenge killing" on someone who raped and murdered an 11 month old child. Sorry you don't agree, but I don't think sitting them down on pink beanbags and trying to get in touch with their feelings to understand them is really fair and just. And in those countries that don't have the death penalty this kind of stuff still goes on so I dont think talking to them is really deterring them either. So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. This. Spot on. And to paraphrase Chinahand, there are some people who really are only fit to be shot in the head. No qualms at all. In fact in many cases that is fat too good for them. Then we have the old chestnut of executing the wrong person. OK, apply discretion where there is any doubt but there are plenty of cases where we are 100% sure. There are also plenty of cases where we think we're 100% sure and are then wrong. It's simply unjustifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm perfectly comfortable with the state exacting a "revenge killing" on someone who raped and murdered an 11 month old child. Sorry you don't agree, but I don't think sitting them down on pink beanbags and trying to get in touch with their feelings to understand them is really fair and just. And in those countries that don't have the death penalty this kind of stuff still goes on so I dont think talking to them is really deterring them either. So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. This. Spot on. And to paraphrase Chinahand, there are some people who really are only fit to be shot in the head. No qualms at all. In fact in many cases that is fat too good for them. Then we have the old chestnut of executing the wrong person. OK, apply discretion where there is any doubt but there are plenty of cases where we are 100% sure. There are also plenty of cases where we think we're 100% sure and are then wrong. It's simply unjustifiable. No. Don't agree. Plenty ARE 100% certain. Good riddance. Bad rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm perfectly comfortable with the state exacting a "revenge killing" on someone who raped and murdered an 11 month old child. Sorry you don't agree, but I don't think sitting them down on pink beanbags and trying to get in touch with their feelings to understand them is really fair and just. And in those countries that don't have the death penalty this kind of stuff still goes on so I dont think talking to them is really deterring them either. So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. This. Spot on. And to paraphrase Chinahand, there are some people who really are only fit to be shot in the head. No qualms at all. In fact in many cases that is fat too good for them. Then we have the old chestnut of executing the wrong person. OK, apply discretion where there is any doubt but there are plenty of cases where we are 100% sure. There are also plenty of cases where we think we're 100% sure and are then wrong. It's simply unjustifiable. No. Don't agree. Plenty ARE 100% certain. Good riddance. Bad rubbish. Yes, some are. But there are also cases where we think it's certain and end up executing an innocent person. And if that happens just ONCE (which it has, a lot more than that), the system becomes impossible to support. There is no way you can justify a system that sometimes kills an innocent person. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm perfectly comfortable with the state exacting a "revenge killing" on someone who raped and murdered an 11 month old child. Sorry you don't agree, but I don't think sitting them down on pink beanbags and trying to get in touch with their feelings to understand them is really fair and just. And in those countries that don't have the death penalty this kind of stuff still goes on so I dont think talking to them is really deterring them either. So if we can agree that there's nothing that can be done to deter this type of person, then I don't really have an issue with them being murdered by the state, ideally in a long, drawn out and horrific way. This. Spot on. And to paraphrase Chinahand, there are some people who really are only fit to be shot in the head. No qualms at all. In fact in many cases that is fat too good for them. Then we have the old chestnut of executing the wrong person. OK, apply discretion where there is any doubt but there are plenty of cases where we are 100% sure. There are also plenty of cases where we think we're 100% sure and are then wrong. It's simply unjustifiable. No. Don't agree. Plenty ARE 100% certain. Good riddance. Bad rubbish. Yes, some are. But there are also cases where we think it's certain and end up executing an innocent person. And if that happens just ONCE (which it has, a lot more than that), the system becomes impossible to support. There is no way you can justify a system that sometimes kills an innocent person. At all. And, if just ONCE, someone thinks twice about murder because there is a death penalty .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Exactly. A LOT more innocent lives would be saved. I hate this mentality of being too civilised to have any meaningful sanction against the uncivilised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Exactly. A LOT more innocent lives would be saved. I hate this mentality of being too civilised to have any meaningful sanction against the uncivilised. Plenty of studies have shown the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Exactly. A LOT more innocent lives would be saved. I hate this mentality of being too civilised to have any meaningful sanction against the uncivilised. Plenty of studies have shown the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. You can get a study to prove anything you want to prove. Many will think twice if their neck is on the line and one day at the noose is much more effective than a lifetime of "treatment" and "rehabilitaition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Exactly. A LOT more innocent lives would be saved. I hate this mentality of being too civilised to have any meaningful sanction against the uncivilised. Plenty of studies have shown the death penalty is not an effective deterrent.You can get a study to prove anything you want to prove. Many will think twice if their neck is on the line and one day at the noose is much more effective than a lifetime of "treatment" and "rehabilitaition".If you value your gut feeling over well conducted and peer reviewed studies then I'm afraid this is where this conversation ends. You can quite easily believe anything you want if you ignore evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I can certainly see where belief in such nonsense has taken us in the last half century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You can get a study to prove anything you want to prove. Many will think twice if their neck is on the line and one day at the noose is much more effective than a lifetime of "treatment" and "rehabilitaition". That really must be right - because there just aren't any murders in any of the 32 states of the USA where they have capital punishment, are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You can get a study to prove anything you want to prove. Many will think twice if their neck is on the line and one day at the noose is much more effective than a lifetime of "treatment" and "rehabilitaition". That really must be right - because there just aren't any murders in any of the 32 states of the USA where they have capital punishment, are there? I didn't say that, idiot. Read the post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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