Thomas Jefferson Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's no surprise when the founder of their religion married a 6 yr old and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (and he was in his 50s). And this is the same guy who carried out genocide against a Jewish tribe (Banu Nadir) and forced its leader's 17 yr old daughter to become one of his wives. How anyone could believe someone like that was a messenger of God is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Endovelicus, a very good and thought provoking post. We see appalling examples of the violent mistreatment of women all over the world, by men who profess belief in different religions and none, and by perverse judicial systems. As a man, I am dismayed and saddened but the overwhelming emotion is puzzlement. Whilst you can blame religious creeds, I think they are only an expression of something deeper. It is more helpful to think about what might motivate the writing of repressive religious texts, and the emergence of discriminatory regimes in the first place. Here, it gets tricky, as I have never inhabited anyone else's psyche, but my belief is that sexual insecurity is a common, possibly universal trait in male sexuality. That being the case, what a tempting prospect to subjugate, dominate, keep child-like our actual and potential sexual partners. Sometimes, that finds expression through individual violence, sometimes through herd behaviour and sometimes through the inscription of rules that do the job for us. We need decent societies, with rules that embody the economic, social and sexual equality of men and women, and deal harshly with all violence, short of the death penalty, which I personally also condemn. Even tougher than that is that boys and men need to grow up with a different sexual script, one that acknowledges insecurity, stresses the mutuality of sexual pleasure and removes stereotypes of the virginal, child-like female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's no surprise when the founder of their religion married a 6 yr old and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (and he was in his 50s). And this is the same guy who carried out genocide against a Jewish tribe (Banu Nadir) and forced its leader's 17 yr old daughter to become one of his wives. How anyone could believe someone like that was a messenger of God is beyond me. I don't want to divert this thread into a religious rant - but it's time to point out that others at that time - in the Bible - were every bit as bad! Rabbi Solomon, for example, in his comment on Genesis, says that Rebecca, when she was married to Isaac, was but 3 Years of Age. That a girl of 3 Years old is fit for marriage, is maintained very plainly in the Jewish writings; particularly, in Emek Hamelech, in the following passage, ‘our blessed sags, of blessed memory, say, that a female is not fit for marriage, ‘till she is arrived at the age of 3 years and 1 day.’ The Talmud supports this, in the part entitled Avoda Sara. The Sanhedrin says, A daughter, who is of the age of 3 years and 1 day, is, by being bedded with a Man, lawfully married. And you turn a blind eye to that so you can condemn a different religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 One of the many issues I have with any religion is that it can be used as an excuse or justification for doing something a society would normally not do. This is why state law and religious law should never have any connection and the first must always over rule the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's no surprise when the founder of their religion married a 6 yr old and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (and he was in his 50s). And this is the same guy who carried out genocide against a Jewish tribe (Banu Nadir) and forced its leader's 17 yr old daughter to become one of his wives. How anyone could believe someone like that was a messenger of God is beyond me. I don't want to divert this thread into a religious rant - but it's time to point out that others at that time - in the Bible - were every bit as bad! Rabbi Solomon, for example, in his comment on Genesis, says that Rebecca, when she was married to Isaac, was but 3 Years of Age. That a girl of 3 Years old is fit for marriage, is maintained very plainly in the Jewish writings; particularly, in Emek Hamelech, in the following passage, ‘our blessed sags, of blessed memory, say, that a female is not fit for marriage, ‘till she is arrived at the age of 3 years and 1 day.’ The Talmud supports this, in the part entitled Avoda Sara. The Sanhedrin says, A daughter, who is of the age of 3 years and 1 day, is, by being bedded with a Man, lawfully married. And you turn a blind eye to that so you can condemn a different religion? I don't turn a blind eye to anything. Children could be betrothed -- not married -- to other children; it was only later, when they reached adulthood, and the male was able to support a family, that they moved in together and consummated a marriage. Jewish biblical law forbids the marrying of a child to an adult, and classes it in the same category as rape and incest. By "Rabbi Solomon", I assume you mean Rashi who was speculating based on the ages of Sarah and Isaac. Rebecca couldn't have been three years old, though, if you actually bother to read the Bible and consider the manner in which she became betrothed to him -- she drew water from the well for ten camels. There are different opinions on her age. Even the one you cite out of context says the marriage wasn't consummated for another ten years. In the Bible, a marriage isn't a marriage until it's consummated. Other opinions are that she was fourteen. The speculation on her age is just that; we simply have no idea how old either of them were. The biblical text does not support the claim that she was three years old. None of this is in the same category as Muhammad, the founder of Islam, who is known for a fact to have consummated a marriage with a 9 yr old girl, Aiysha, when he was in his late 50s. Such a thing wouldn't be allowed in Judaism. As for the out-of-context passage from the Talmud which you no doubt copied and pasted from an anti-Jewish website, it is addressed here http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/three.html -- it does not say what you think it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Awaits apology for anti-Semitic defamation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Awaits apology for anti-Semitic defamation... Because anything that doesn't bow down and worship everything Jewish simply must be anti-semitic? Fuck off, you nutter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Awaits apology for anti-Semitic defamation... Because anything that doesn't bow down and worship everything Jewish simply must be anti-semitic? Fuck off, you nutter! No, because you accused Judaism and therefore Jews of promoting pedophilia, an accusation totally false and slanderous, and I happen to know the only places on the internet you'll find those out of context quotes alongside accusations of pedophilia are run by rabid anti-semites. I know you don't own a copy of the Talmud, and are incapable of translating it into English. I also seriously doubt you have a Bible with Rashi's Commentary in it. Admit it, you cut and pasted it off some dodgy website and didn't even have the integrity to cite the source. You're the nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As soon as you say 'I happen to know,' you lose. You've shown so many times that you know fuck all about anything except how to derail a serious thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 A serious thread created by none other than ME, derailed by none other than YOU. You're the one who completely went off topic and started badmouthing Judaism. If you want to criticise something arguably legitimate then go ahead and create a thread on it, but as soon as you start accusing Judaism of being a religion of pedophiles then you can f---- right off !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 A serious thread created by none other than ME, derailed by none other than YOU. You're the one who completely went off topic and started badmouthing Judaism. If you want to criticise something arguably legitimate then go ahead and create a thread on it, but as soon as you start accusing Judaism of being a religion of pedophiles then you can f---- right off !!! My final word (because I'd promised myself to stop responding to your stupid and ignorant trolling) is to say that you responded to a very serious point about rape and abuse by pointing at just ONE example that happened to be a Muslim one because that suited your bigoted purpose. My apologies if any attempt to introduce any kind of balance into a thread you started is so unwelcome. It's a sunny day so I'm going out to enjoy it. I'd suggest you do the same, but you're probably too busy posting on your work computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 A serious thread created by none other than ME, derailed by none other than YOU. You're the one who completely went off topic and started badmouthing Judaism. If you want to criticise something arguably legitimate then go ahead and create a thread on it, but as soon as you start accusing Judaism of being a religion of pedophiles then you can f---- right off !!! My final word (because I'd promised myself to stop responding to your stupid and ignorant trolling) is to say that you responded to a very serious point about rape and abuse by pointing at just ONE example that happened to be a Muslim one because that suited your bigoted purpose. My apologies if any attempt to introduce any kind of balance into a thread you started is so unwelcome. It's a sunny day so I'm going out to enjoy it. I'd suggest you do the same, but you're probably too busy posting on your work computer. I didn't just use "one example that happened to be a Muslim", I was talking about the FOUNDER of the Muslim religion, the man they all emulate even to the point of copying all his quirks and habits. Muhammad's life and teachings form the foundation of sharia law. You're the one ignorantly trolling, trying to pretend you have a clue about the Talmud or Rashi ("Rabbi Solomon", lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Only non-muslims regard Mohammed as the founder of Islam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Oh don't start with all that rubbish. Muslims claim all the JEWISH patriarchs and prophets as well as Jesus were all proto-Muslims. They also say all humans are born Muslim and call conversion "reversion". However, it is a historical FACT that Muhammad founded their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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